Splice together 2 x 4's for storage shed?

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I am building an 8'x10' storage shed from mostly scrap materials for $$ reasons. I need to construct side walls 7' high using 2'x4's that are 3'- 4' in length. Is it safe? If so, how should I do it? Mending plates, kerf cuts?
Rob
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They make a finger jointing buit that inmitates the pattern you see on door trim/jambs. I'd probably opt for mending plates and/or screws.You could use one peice as an overlapping piece for the joint and use screws to join.
On 17 Nov 2003 08:34:58 -0800, the snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote:

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he could be a lot of 2x4's for the price of the bit; remember, he's trying to SAVE money.
dave
Lawrence A. Ramsey wrote:

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you can get REAL studs at HD for a few pennies above $2. You CAN'T be that broke!
dave
Rob wrote:

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On 17 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave spake unto rec.woodworking:

Your keyboard already HAS a SHIFT key. You can't be THAT lazy.
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Oh yes he can! I am.

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put your pc on ebay... :)
dave
Lawrence A. Ramsey wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote:

Several points... <g>
- Why spend $2 * (the number of studs) if you don't have to? Lotsa rich folk, who live very well, are quite frugal about buying new when used will do. In many cases it's how they got and kept wealth.
- I've had new, kiln dried studs get all twisty. It doesn't matter much in a wall, but why not use pieces that are probably done twisting?
- My neighbor has a nice shed he's building from construction site castoffs. I raid his trash for 2' & longer 2x4's and 2x6's. Some of us *enjoy* making useful things from other's junk. <g> My drafting table top and a couple of 4-drawer roll arounds came from two desks that were tossed out when a business moved. The top of my drill press table came from one of the desk sides. Even if I could drop a million dollars a year into this hobby I'd still enjoy making functional utility stuff from castoffs.
-- Mark
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there are 2 qualities of studs at HD. if you spend an extra 12 cents or so, you can get straight ones, all day long...
dave
Mark Jerde wrote:

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the snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Rob) writes:

Considering that "Mending plates" (are that the metal plates that are nailed on?) do not come for free i would (if enough material is there) glue the 2x4s (i guess you mean 2"x4" and not 2'x4') staggered to form 4"x4"'s, like this: (Each strip of identical letters stands for one 2x4)
AB AB AB AC AC AC DC DC DC
For the roof beams i would consider one-piece beams, though; but the need not necesarily be rectangular in cross section, round ones can also be used (also for the side walls), and they might be got much cheaper. (My fathers workshop has also some round poles, which wree available when it was constructed partly from scrap material 45 years ago, also on a very tight budget)
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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Try a half-lap joint with the mending plates.
Shawn
Rob wrote:

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Use the crap you find in your woodstove. Take the money you save on oil and buy real studs so the roof doesn't cave in on your head and cost you money at the emergency room.
--
-Jim


If you want to reply by email its --> ryan at jimryan dot com
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If you've got _lots_ of scrap available, and can add a 'splice piece' on *both* sides of each point where the butt joints are, I'd say "go for it".
i.e.:
1 1 1 1 A1B A1B A1B A1B A1B A2B A2B A2B A2B A2B 2 2 2 2
I'd run the 'splice' pieces (A and B, above) _at_least_ a foot beyond the 1-2 joint, in each direction.
I would *not* trust nails, or screws, to hold things together.
I tend to "over-engineer" for reliability (*PARTICULARLY* when I'm "not sure" what I'm doing :), so, in addition to gluing, I'd run *bolts* through the whole mess, above and below the joint point. With big 'fender' washers. A total of 4 bolts, one pair about 3-4" away from the joint, and the second pair about 9" away.
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    Greetings and Salutations.
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:12:33 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@horatio.agresource.com () wrote:

    *snip*
    that sounds like a decent plan for a storage shed. I would also coat all the touching surfaces with Liquid Nails. I REALLY like its ability to turn two pieces of wood into one.     Got to have panels on both sides of the joint though, and, up a fairly long way from it too.     Regards     Dave Mundt
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liquid nails crystalizes after a few years and becomes TOTALLY WORTHLESS. don't rely on that stuff.
Dave Mundt wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@horatio.agresource.com wrote:

(snip) I've done it, exactly in this fashion. I was in college and broke, broke, broke. (Really broke. Can't-afford-Ramen-noodles broke.) I could get all the cast off 4' 2x4s I wanted from a warehouse (used as skids for pallets and bundles of lumber) for free.
I nailed together a pile of them, then cut them to length. The shed I made was 7x12 footprint, with a sloped (free!) corrugated metal roof. It sloped from 7 feet on one edge to 6 feet on the other. The only place I didn't scrimp was on the roof joists, which were solid 2x4s held in place by joist hangers. It was an ideal project for the time, it ignored every building code and blatantly defied some, it used common sense and the best materials I could afford, and it is still standing 10 years later.
If you have lots of lumber and nails, you can make 4x4s or thicker material built up out of smaller pieces, with staggered joints. One warning that I have is this: DON'T rely on this method to be really structurally safe, i.e. for a supporting beam in a habitable building. Glu-Lam beams use finger joints and really waterproof glue, and are glued up under controlled conditions and tested to failure to know their weaknesses.
Be sure to use concrete blocks (or even bricks) to keep it off the ground if you can't afford pressure treated sill plates. A word of wisdom: a storage building under 100 sq feet, with a temp foundation of concrete blocks or gravel, may not be subject to building codes or building inspections in most communities. (Check this out in your community, duh, IANAL.) You may not even have to obey the standard property setbacks for a small building.
Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress, and if you can get a pic on the 'net, I'd love to see it when it's finished.
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the snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message

Rob, Ignore the naysayers. You can splice the 2x4's by using scrap 1/2" ply or osb wall/roof sheathing. Glue and nail. Scraps are plentiful at job sites. Plenty safe if you butt the 2x4's tightly together so that the load is transfered without relying on the patch. Make up the studs first then cut to length as you normally would. You can also use the short lengths with ply to make yourself 3 roof trusses. A good way to recycle. Go for it.
mike
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Thanks to everyone for the info and the welcome to rec.woodworking! The ASCII diagrams were especially useful. With this post I was mainly concerned with the side walls. I will likely use (purchased) clear spans of 2"x4" for the roof in the interest of safety. Although, if I can figure out a solidly engineered truss system using the same construction cast offs I might go in that direction.
Mending plates will cost extra so, I'll probably pass on using those for the walls.
My point in all this IS to be frugal. Currently, we have one half of a garage filled with lawn & garden equipment and I would like to reclaim this area for a workbench and to park my car. We have the "benefit" of living in a development with several houses under construction. Currently, two have been sheetrocked, two have just had foundations completed with lumber delivered. Another has just been sheathed.
I have a qty of leftover exterior grade screws I will use as well as some nails.
I also have a reliable source of wood pallets through my wife's employer. I will be examining these next for the 2"x4" used. I am aware that the quality of wood varies widely in pallets and may not be worth using (or even safe).
For those interested in tracking my progress I will post a page soon.
So far I have scavenged the following cast off materials:
2 pkgs of cast off roof shingles (black) 30' of 2x4 mostly in 8' and 10-12' sections scavengend from a cast off truss. 8 concrete blocks. These have been already cut in a "half/L" shape which I will use as perimeter "piers". 1 partial roll of vinyl flooring.
What I plan to buy: pressure treated lumber for the floor framing Some exterior paint (keeping an eye on the "oops" cart at HD & Lowe's). Alternate plan: I have seen some scrap vinyl siding but, will keep an eye out for the right color.
Rob A.(who's usually on alt.food.barbecue)
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the snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Rob) wrote in message

Scarf joints _can_ be used to make longer horizontal beams and rafters out of shorter pieces of wood. Unless the challenge of the task is really, really, attractive, and you are very confident of doing ti well then I agree that you should just use whole stock
You can make longer studs from the shorter pieces using mortise and tenon joints. Cut the tennon on the lower piece and the mortice in the bottom butt of the upper piece. However half-lapping or just butting them with additonal pieces nailed to either side will do just fine.
Again, it is a question of how fancy you want to get in addition to being frugal.

Well, why didn't you say so before? You can saw the slats off in between the stringers and use those to overlap the splices on the studs. If you can seperate the slats from the stringers without breaking them (often it is easier to pund the nails through the slat rather than pulling them out) then you can use those for the rafters too.
You will need to plane them to uniform thickness and then laminate them face-to-face, staggering them so that no two places where they are butted end-to-end are accross the same section of the rafter. You will need to use at least three 'layers' of slats per rafter, and maybe four to assure that the minimum thickeness accross any section is 1 1/2". THis will also take a lot of glue.
Do you have a source of cheap glue?

But you get to select it.
--

FF

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