Simple cad/design software?

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Prof Wonmug wrote:

Every rail, stile, end panel, trim, part, etc (including the hardware). is a separate "component", some of them "grouped" into sub assemblies(like the doors).
For woodworking, you will want to get in the habit of doing all your models as separate "components", them "grouping" them as needed, just as you would do when making the piece in the shop.
There are many reasons for this, the least of which is that you can extract a parts cutlist from the model, it helps to work out the joinery details, and part dimensions can be easily changed (change the dimension of one "component" and all the copies of that "component" change accordingly).

Using animation, they can certainly be made to do so, but IMO that is just "eye candy" and not all necessary to this particular project, which didn't need a "wow factor".

"Presentation" is a big part of designing, and then selling your client.
On this particular project, only the free version of SU was used, although I have subsequently purchased the "Pro" version, which has many more "presentation" options. Being a custom home builder, I needed those additional options when recently presented a house to build that was designed solely with the free versions of SU.
YMMV, but SU, because it is readily available for free to any client with an Internet connection, is especially valuable in this regard for obvious reasons ... an option perhaps not easily available to your client were you using other CAD software, although most programs have "viewers" that can be used by the client to view the project.
As in most endeavors, using any tool may have compromises gladly made for convenience of use and implementation.
SU is certainly not the end all solution to woodworking design, but it can certainly be made to suffice for many woodworking projects with a little facility with the program.
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Are you using SU or SU Pro?
nb
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I guess in the best case scenario, you introduce a potential customer to the free version of SU, get him to design his project in SU and then he pays you to build it. Being familiar with SU as you are, if there's a problem with the customer's design, you can modify it and get him to approve the alterations.
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Swingman wrote:

I'm curious about the face frame on the casework jpg. Why didn't you continue the top rail all the way across, instead you divided it twice. You do beautiful work and this wasn't intended to criticize, just wondered. Kinda caught my eye right away.
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evodawg wrote:

Good eye ... and normally I would not do it that way, but that method did not lend itself to this particular design due to the necessity of the interor casework sides, the size, the small shop, and the method of work.
It's a long story ... also I was not sure whether I wanted to build the two side components of the hutch first, then using the curved rail and top rail to join them into one piece ... much easier to handle in a small shop and working alone.
I build face frames first, then assemble the casework in grooves dadoed in the face frames. I use pocket hole joinery (in the face frames only), and the pocket holes would have interfered with the installation of interior casework sides in the interior stiles.
Once the face frame and casework is joined and glued, the extra joint becomes moot, except in appearance, but keep in mind this in going in a kitchen and the stile appearance in the hutch is reflected in the run of the other cabinets.
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Swingman wrote:

So, I'm not the only one who has to deal with not having enough room. :-)
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-MIKE- wrote:

Is it ever possible to have "enough" room? That's kinda like saying you already have enough clamps, isn't it? :-)
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Swingman wrote:

Ok, I'm a one man shop to, but I think I'd still would have made that rail continue across without intersecting it. I usually build the case then the face frame. I also use biscuits and pocket holes to join my face frames. Can't imagine doing it any other way.
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evodawg wrote:

Well, it wasn't _your_ decision, so kiss my ass.
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"Swingman" wrote:

A bit testy tonight, I see<grin>.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Yeah, with well over five hundred cabinets under your belt you tend to get that way with the smug who "can't imagine doing it any other way", yet have no clue as to why it was necessary to do it differently then they would given the circumstances.
I build entire kitchens at a time, therefore I set up to produce parts for 20 to 40 cabinets and their components ... you can't always do that the same way that you can when you have the luxury and time to do a one-off.
That said, I do hereby apologize for my "testiness".
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(chuckle)
IMHO, your testiness was totally justified. You took the time to post several images to help someone figure out how to use SU. evodawg asked why you designed it the way you did. You again took the time to explain tat aspect of your design. evodawg made an asshole remark and you drilled him. I say, attaboy. ;-)
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"Nucular Reaction" wrote

Swingman is like good booze. You expect a little bite. :-)
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When I read Evo's second post, the one after the one where he was complementing you on your work and saying that he wasn't trying to criticize, I knew that it would be misconstrued. There should have been some space between the comment about the top rail of the face frame, and the pocket- hole-couldn't-imagine part.

Of course shop conditions influence design - it can be no other way. Same with experiences. If both of Evo's posts were combined into one, you probably wouldn't have taken issue. Next time he'll know to put the part about "I'm not criticizing" in the post where he's criticizing. ;)

I'll have to look up the etymology of the word testiness. I wonder if it's derived from testes. Maybe in olden days people would get miffed if they got kicked in the balls. Thankfully we've evolved.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Guess I could have used other words and constructed my sentence structure better. Think the last thing I said was he does beautiful work, which should have qualified the paragraph. But thanks for sticking up for me.

I'm just going to stop while I'm behind. Although I have built plenty of kitchens I didn't want to get alienated in this newsgroup like I have in Home repair. It's funny when I answered questions in there, it was answers I have run into myself and the solutions. They would jump on you if they didn't agree. For example the Refrig line freezing when water gets turned off. This has happened to me on at least 10 times where I turned the water off for a length of time, (shower builds, vanity builds, kitchen builds)and sure enough the customer would complain the water dispenser stopped working in the frig. After a few of those you kind of get it.

Hopefully it doesn't come down to that.

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TESTY Word History: To the casual eye testy and heady seem to have no connection; a more thoughtful examination reveals that both words refer to the head. The head in heady is easy to see in both the form and meanings of the word. The earliest sense, first recorded in a work composed before 1382, is "headlong, headstrong," which is clearly a "head" sense; but so is the better-known current sense "apt to go to the head, intoxicating." To see the head in testy, we must look back to the Old French word testu, the source of our word. Testu is derived from the Old French word teste, "head" (Modern French tte). In English testy developed another sense, "aggressive, contentious," which passed into the sense we are familiar with, "irritable."
TESTES Word History: The resemblance between testimony, testify, testis, and testicle shows an etymological relationship, but linguists are not agreed on precisely how English testis came to have its current meaning. The Latin testis originally meant "witness," and etymologically means "third (person) standing by": the te- part comes from an older tri-, a combining form of the word for "three," and - stis is a noun derived from the Indo-European root st- meaning "stand." How this also came to refer to the body part(s) is disputed. ***An old theory has it that the Romans placed their right hands on their testicles and swore by them before giving testimony in court. *** Another theory says that the sense of testicle in Latin testis is due to a calque, or loan translation, from Greek. The Greek noun parastats means "defender (in law), supporter" (para- "by, alongside," as in paramilitary and -stats from histanai, "to stand"). In the dual number, used in many languages for naturally occurring, contrasting, or complementary pairs such as hands, eyes, and ears, parastats had the technical medical sense "testicles," that is "two glands side by side." The Romans simply took this sense of parastats and added it to testis, the Latin word for legal supporter, witness.
I swear by my balls I'm not testy. ;)
R
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RicodJour wrote:

I'm still unclear as to where "testy" comes from, but at least I have a better idea where "don't get you're balls in an uproar" is rooted. :-)
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Swingman wrote:

Geeeez. The can't imagine doing it any other way had to do with using pocket holes and biscuits, not the rail dispute. You do really nice work and didn't mean to piss you off. I'm German, so I see things a little differently then most, thanks to my father, God rest his perfectionist soul! Anyway Ive been to your website and like I said in the last 2 posts, you do really nice work.
Here's another I get inspiration from. http://www.daviddecristoforo.com /
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evodawg wrote:

When I first started woodworking, I got very lucky and bought an entire shop full of old Rockwell Delta tools from the 50's. I had little clue of how to use any of them, and began a search for how to books. At the local library, I ran into a million books from the 1920-40's, most looked like the same book with the same stuff, none were what I wanted... How to build a book shelf, how to build work bench and so on. I was starting to wonder if home workshops no longer existed.
Then, I stumbled over R.J.Chrstoforo's Complete Book of Power tools... PERFECT. This book got me started in a very good way. He shows how to use and set up all your tools, how to make jigs and fixtures to build most anything. He is my woodworking hero, and I would expect his son to be great.
Nice to see his name still floating around.
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Jack Stein wrote:

He's also a contributor on Saw Mill Creek web forum http://www.sawmillcreek.org /
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