I lost my car. I had a 2002 Cavalier Z-24 2 door coupe with 5 speed
manual that got 28 city and 30 highway. It had the torque to go up the
mountains on the West Virginia turnpike at 70 and not bog down, as
It got total last Thursday, and I have been looking for a replacement.
There is no car to replace it. All are larger, have less power, weigh
more and get less gas mileage. Is that what the liberal have been
talking about for the last 10 years when they say they are improving the
PS I had just driven through West Virgina turnpike the day before the
wreck, and watch today's cars bog down about 10 to 16 mph going up the
that got 28 city and 30 highway. It had the torque to go up the mountains on the
West Virginia turnpike at 70 and not bog down, as today's Automobiles.
get less gas mileage. Is that what the liberal have been talking about for the
last 10 years when they say they are improving the American Automobiles?
I used to travel extensively and rented cars all over the US and Europe.
Now, rental cars are the most abused cars on the planet so you can
tell pretty quickly what brands hold up. For my money, the Honda
Accord is the best car (made in the US, BTW) in the category. I have
driven both the 4- and 6-cylinder models, and owned the V6. They are
superbly screwed together, run like a top, and with 20K rental
miles on them, they still were rattle free and ran fine.
BTW, the only difference I noticed between the 4- and 6-cylinder
models was the kick getting from 0-60. Around town and at highway
speeds, I found them remarkably similar. So, if mileage is an
issue, I would not hesitate to recommend the 4.
P.S. We've also owned several Acuras - Honda's luxury brand. They
are also terrific, though at a higher price point.
Tim Daneliuk firstname.lastname@example.org
My son has a similar equipped 05 Cavalier which he got new. He gets 39
mgh in the highway and 32 in town.
Anyway good car for an entry level vehicle.
If you want reliable and several steps up and still affordable look at
Honda and Toyota.
On Mon, 07 May 2012 21:54:19 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
You should be able to find another 2002 Cavalier around someplace. Might
take a bit of looking, but sure there are some out there. 2002 is not
really that old. Not as old as the 1967-69 Celica ST that I have been
Sorry to hear about your car totaled, but thee are plenty that can
My Sonata V-6 gets that mileage and with 250 HP has plenty of zip. I
just got back from a 2400 mile vacation and averaged 28 mpg with
speeds up to 85 mph. Some flat, some hilly. Far more comfortable
that a Cavalier and easier to get in and out of.
I've driven cars in Europe (Smart Forfor, Citroen CV-4) that could out
run a Cavalier and got over 40 mpg and climbed very steep hills.
Those car bogging down on hills are driver inattention. They have to
push on the right pedal to make it go faster.
On Mon, 07 May 2012 23:17:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Agreed. We took a trip through the Canadian Rockies a few years back and
even on the steepest grades I could maintain 40-50 miles per hour in a 4
cylinder, non-turbo 2006 PT Cruiser.
Got about 29mpg doing it as well - I was surprised as around town is
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
That is exactly what I am trying to avoid in the next car I buy. The
car I lost (Since my original post I was informed it was totaled) could
maintain 70 mph in the steepest part of the mountains. Even my Chevy
Astro van can maintain 60 pulling a boat in that same stretch of highway
and still get 18 to 19 mpg.
I have a 2005 Astro the last of the line. I have a book in the glove
compartment where I record every fill-up and all service.
I was disappointed as my 1994 Safari GMC Van got better than that. I
was compulsive then and recorded everything then.
Part of the reason that your vehicle did so well in the mountains
compared to other vehicles is the computer fuel mixture setting.
Vehicles originally sold to customers in mountainous regions have
different proms in the computer and or different jets in the carbonated
cars. It is a matter of having that adjustment made for the higher
OP was talking about WVA mountains for Pete's sake. There isn't a point
over about 3400 ft on I-77. The tallest point in the state can't be 5000.
We're 2900 ft here in W KS w/ the western edge of the state at 3500 to
nearly 4000. Hardly "high elevation".
I think not any more, anyway; perhaps there was a time in the early
introduction of computer-controlled ignitions when there were some
changes. The only ones I'm aware of had to do w/ places like CA w/
specific emission controls requirements, though.
In the olden days of carbureted engines it was necessary to readjust
idle for high elevations but that wouldn't really be terribly necessary
until above 6000 ft or higher and then generally only for permanent
change in locale; rarely couldn't "get by" w/o it. Of course, if you're
starting from even lower, the change is greater.
I can recall many, many years ago driving w/ parents to the top of Mt
Evans, CO, (nearly 14000 ft) and in the parking lot there the car had so
little power it could barely back itself out of a parking spot in a
nearly level lot.
BTW, really cool place; take the time to do it if you're ever in the
area--well worth it.
Indeed; I can't believe I wrote that; certainly wasn't what was intended.
I've not found any reference to dealer-swap PROMs for curing altitude
sickness which makes me think it isn't/wasn't the common cure.
I recall working on some of the GM MC6809 firmware while still at uni
for the SAE competition and there were some data tables already stored
in there that were switchable if need be by a software machination but
no PROM switch. That was clear back in the late 60s; can't imagine it
didn't get much more sophisticated than that very quickly and leave the
actual need to swap anything out behind ages ago...
Carbs may have had jets changed out if mixture couldn't compensate enough...
Well to give you some credit, when switching out jets it is not much
much more effort to adjust the idle while you have the sir cleaner off.
I am/was refering to the early to mid 80's when computers were first
widely used in most all GM vehicles. I was the parts manager and later
the service sales manager for an Olds dealer in the 80's, prom swaps was
not at all uncommon. There was basically no reprogramming going on in
the dealerships other than changing the prom and or resetting the ECM.
There were location specific factory bulletins that indicated a prom
swap if the vehicle was not normally operated in a location that it was
originally shipped to.
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