Selecting Screws for Assembling Beehives

I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated.
The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal) material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside of head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I think that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great. Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to start.
The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through a part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to start.
I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two weeks before I need to start building these hives.
I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought it was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an organic glue:). Funny how life goes...
Dave
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By shoulder I mean a part of the shaft of the screw without threads, not under the flat of the head.
Dave

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how about: http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/fasteners-screws-round-washer-head-yellow-zinc-plated.html
or just start here: http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/fasteners-screws.html

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bridger responds:

low-zinc-plated.html
Or: http://store.yahoo.com/squaredrive/fasteners-screws-round-washer-head-no-c o-rode-plated.html
Or start at: www.mcfeelys.com
The one I listed has their no-corrode finish. The one Jim listed has a brass finish.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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Use galvanised flathead nails. You can get them from good hardware or beekeeping supply outlets. Ends should be side nailed at the shoulders with a smaller diameter 1/2 inch flat head nail to prevent any pulling apart vertically.. Galvanised hardware is a must with beehives. Don't use water based glue if you must glue and never ever glue only. Fix the bottomboards on with a 3 inch x 1/8 flathead gal nail. I have never seen screws used for frames. They would be OK on bottomboards I guess but gal nails have been used for decades by beekeepers without problems. Good Luck! * Try a post to sci.agriculture.beekeeping or alt.hobbies.beekeeping forums too. Jock
| > I'm about to assemble a bunch of beehives and am looking for a couple of | > types of screws to cut labor. Any help will be appreciated. | > | > The first assembly is the box. The sides are made of 1X10 (3/4" nominal) | > material. I'd like to find a screw with a large head and flat underside | of | > head - like a capscrew in a way. If it had a 5/8" to 3/4" shoulder (I | think | > that is the name for the part without threads) it would be great. | > Self-tapping threads would be close to perfect. I need maybe 500 each to | > start. | > | > The second assembly is the frame which goes inside box. This is the part | > the honeycomb goes on. The pieces are very thin. The screw goes through | a | > part that is 3/8" square and 1/4" thick and fastens into another similar | > piece. The perfect screw would be very thin and have a shoulder close to | > 1/4" so it would pull the pieces together tightly. I need around 1000 to | > start. | > | > I have looked at several of the major sites and haven't located what I'm | > looking for, although I'm sure these are available. I have maybe two | weeks | > before I need to start building these hives. | > | > I remember the thread about organic glue several months ago. I thought it | > was about the funniest thing I had ever heard. Now I'm looking for an | > organic glue:). Funny how life goes... | > | > Dave | > | > | |
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Dave:
I'd go with Jock's advice. Much as I'd like to sell you screws for your beehives, I think there may be some advantage to going with the flow on this one, and frankly, I don't know enough about the construction of a beehive to give you any worthwhile advice. I'm guessing that after all these years, the beekeepers have pretty well figured out what works.
Jim Ray, President McFeely's Square Drive Screws www.mcfeelys.com

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Jim Ray responds:

Come to think of it, my FIL uses galvanized nails. Can't check with him, because at 83 he has no intention of doing computers and he's probably not near a phone on a nice day, but I recall my wife's BIL also does. Between the 2 of them, they're running well over 200 hives, and, in Silas' case (FIL), they've been working for him for over 60 years, shortly after he got home from WWII.
Charlie Self "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped teething." Mark Twain
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Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input. I'll try to get a picture of the hives I'm talking about and post it just for interest sake. Obviously I'm new to this hobby. My first bees are coming on Saturday.
Again, thanks.
Dave

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Dave wrote:

Don't open the package in the bedroom.
--

Gerald Ross, Cochran, GA
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I dunno - could be the most excitement the bedroom has seen in a long time!
Vic

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Psst... Jim.... "McFeely's Square Head Nails" It's got a certain ring to it...
<sigh> With all the competition out there, you'd probably make... oh... hundreds of dollars a year. ;>
Michael
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Hi Dave:
I've built about 20 boxes (deeps & supers) from plans over at http://www.beesource.com /. He recommends 6d galvanized nails which have done the trick for at least 5 years. I use Titebond II, also. If you're doing box joints, I'd think screws would be unnecessary. I prime & paint the outside, but not the inside of the boxes
Screws on the frames would seem to be a lot of work. Are you milling your own frames, too? I'd recommend buying them pre-cut and assembling them.
Good luck!
Chris

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When I posted I had high hopes of finding one person who had something to do with bees-- I guess I should have known better since most people here seem to have many of the same hobbies.
The complete story goes something like this:
My neighbor is a beekeeper at the small business/part-time level. We have been working on several neighborhood projects together and he offered to teach me what I need to know. My first foray will be four (4) hives. I was able to buy 4 supers (10 inch boxes) for $20 each used but with new paint and new frames. The idea is to put each bee package in a super and then start building some more supers to add on top. He told me to plan on at least three supers for each hive this year.
I can get the extra-heavy frames kits for around 70 cents if I buy 100 at a time so that is what I'm going to do. I'm going to use permadent foundations which are something like 85 cents. The box kits are $9.50 and while I'd like to make my own, I have some travel this spring and have decided to just buy the first 10.
So, back to the point. Neighbor says he has found that if he uses screws to assemble, the pieces last a lot longer. He showed me some boxes he had assembled with clamps and screws. They look new after 5 years. The paint hasn't even cracked over the joints. They are painted only on the outside with a latex paint over two coats of latex primer. For screws he uses the standard yellow plated screws from the borg. He clamps things up and then drills a pilot hole, followed by a larger relief hole through the first layer (to keep the threads from engaging the first board. On the top and bottom screw of each joint he uses one of those little chrome washers that is sort of cup shaped. He says that keeps the corners from warping and splitting (which I can see it does). So I got this bright idea about a self-tapping, pan-headed screw with no threads where it goes through the first board. Save time, longer life. I think I'm still willing to give it a try if I come across just the right thing. Bridger posted one that is pretty close to ideal and is also the one I had my eye on. I guess the simplest way to describe the screw is one to hold a piece of 1x stock onto the endgrain of another 1x. Of course the configuration is boxjoints. I'll look a little more this weekend and then make a decision.
Neighbor assembles his frames with very tiny brass screws. He said he got them at "the hardware store," but hasn't been able to find any except standard slotted head type. This looks pretty tedious to me but I can see how it would be an advantage to have super sturdy frames. He has a 20-frame extractor and he says it is pretty hard on nailed frames.
I can't use a glue like titebond (I'm told) because that would preclude me from selling the honey as "organically grown" which I'm told sells for $8-10 a quart around these parts. My hope is to cover costs and make a slim profit by the end of the second season. Realistically all the money will go back into the equipment but I'd like to cover costs by then at least.
So... my bee packages come on Saturday. I'm leaving for an overnighter in a bit so I'll be checking this thread tomorrow. I really appreciate everyone's input. I'll study the info I have received.
Thanks
Dave
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EUREKA! A *new* kind of "honey do" item. <guffaw>

"pan-head" sheet-metal screws meet all your requirements *except* for the shoulder.

I'd be tempted to use _bolts_, with fender washers to spread the load.
Bolts give a lot more gripping power, and the grip does _not_ degrade with repeated dis-assembly/re-assembly.

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