Screws vs dowels

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wrote:

Dowels get my vote, but it may be irrelevant since the joint that is the result of the use either will usually be stronger than the surrounding material.
There is a world of information on the use of various fasteners in wood available on the www. Check here for starters:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/soltis87a.pdf
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Removal resistance. The dowel does just fine in shear, but pullout is about nil.
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George wrote:

That depends on grain orientation -- if it isn't cross grain, there's a pretty good area for glue joint which isn't 'nil'. Although I've never done a calibrated test, in end grain which where the dowel would have the most long-long grain, the screw might not have any more holding power, if as much, knowing that they'll tend to pull out of end grain...
Would be an interesting test just out of curiousity...
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It's been done. See Hoadly on differential wood movement along the grain of the dowel and the wood which encloses it. Unless you've got the perfect grain match, it'll work loose from the glue as time passes, the wood cycles and the glue becomes more brittle.
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I'll have to disagree with that statement if the dowel is glued in.
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It would seem to me that a well fitted dowel with grooves for glue flow would be stronger than a screw in most cases.... The main advantage to a dowel or biscuit, IMO, is the increase in gluing area... because if the joint fails, screws aren't going to help much...
I've done test joints with biscuits and then taken them apart a week later... In every case I had to break the joint before the biscuit let go..
mac
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"dpb" wrote in message

First, you have to remember where he lives, that his pieces are considered "art", that "promotion" is a big part of success in that genre (I personally prefer Moser's less publicized/promoted work), and that he reportedly once admitted that he started using screws out of ignorance of other joinery techniques. :)
As much as I admire his work, and certainly not to detract from what he does, but if I wanted a "furniture joinery guru" to emulate, I think I'd go with Klausz.
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have to take with a grain of salt. Of course you have to take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt, unless you enjoy having no thoughts of your own.
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http://www.atlasdowel.com/spmatdowels.htm
mac
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<snip>

because people buy them? Folks will buy almost anything.
What else explains Gary Knox Bennett?
Patriarch
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I have quite a few pieces of Stickley which have, in addition to exposed tenons, visible tenon-pin dowel ends, some of which are of contrasting wood. Also some with visible dowel pins in corbels. All of these dowel ends are prominent - no attempt was made to match grain. It's a feature of A&C furniture.
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All that matters is that you are happy with the poorly made furniture.
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wrote:

Let's see...anyone else you want to add to the list of woodworking idiots? We've already got Maloof and Stickley. Wanna add Krenov and Klausz just to round it out? You know, Klausz uses *gasp* white glue to assemble his furniture. What a moron!
todd
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todd wrote: ...

You meant "maroon" of course, I presume? :)
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is fabulous. But all this is just a fun tangent.
Arts and Crafts simply doesn't feature conspicuous plugs. The fact that Maloof might use them in some circumstances is hardly authorization for the rest of us to disregard what looks good.
Large natural emeralds are worth many times the value of large synthetic emeralds. You know how you tell them apart? By examining them under microscopes. If you can find a defect, however small, they are natural; if perfect, synthetic. Otherwise they are indestinquishable. That makes a lot of sense. Naturally, they are working to put defects in sythetic stones, so new tests are being developed.
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So you are presuming to speak for everybody on this subject? Tell me, how do I feel about Iraq? Pickup trucks?

What in God's name are you babbling about?
FoggyTown
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There is also a difference between a pin and a plug. A pin is a structural component with the grain oriented *through* the cylinder, intended to provide sheer resitance to pullout of a tennon. A plug is a cross-gram cosmetic cap used to cover a structural component (screw).
You cant "match" the grain on a pin because it is, by definition, in the wrong orientation.
I believe that the OP intended to use dowels as a loose tennon rather than to pin a (not loose) tennon.
Steve
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"FoggyTown" wrote in message

If you really want to adhere to the "principles" of "arts and crafts style", neither ... traditional mortise and tenon is the way to go, especially for the larger pieces.
There are some good books out on making Arts and Crafts pieces, the "Shop Drawing" series by Robert Lang is a good place to get a sense of traditional construction for this style.
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I have a 50 lb. box of dry wall screws so you know what I use.
JR
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On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:42:02 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Jerry - OHIO) wrote:

Really shouldn't use drywall screws for joinery, too brittle.
-Leuf
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