JOAT A highbrow is a person educated beyond his intelligence.
- Brander Matthews
But how well would plywood work? Seems to me that it would be pretty brittle for that particular use.
If you want something that is probably less than 1/2 the weight of a piece of 3/4" ply and can't be penetrated by a copper jacketed .357 mag, contact me off list.
I'll tell you how to make one.
Lew
Wed, Apr 27, 2005, 10:06pm (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahu.com (Avraham) says: Well, speaking as a guy who has been fighting for 22 years, plywood wouldn't hold up at all.
My Gods, I'm getting sucked back in the group, I post, then see a thread, and post a response. Aaach.
Speaking as a guy who ain't about to go around letting people beat on me without trying to give them some serious damage in return, I never figured anyone would wear them to get beat on in. Personally, before I would run around letting people beat on me, I'd make myself some real armour, including a "real" helmet, out of good quality steel, stuff able to take repeated hits from a real sword, and hold up. Even better, would be standing back with a trusty catapult, and buckets of hot sand. Hehehe
JOAT A highbrow is a person educated beyond his intelligence.
- Brander Matthews
I *do* wear a real helmet, made of good quality steel. You can't (for a practical amount of money, anyway) make a helmet that won't dent eventually and still be able to wear it and move your head around.
I'll admit, it's not a hobby for everyone. On the other hand, we're really trying NOT to hurt each other - the person on the other side of the field is a friend and opponent, not an enemy. Avraham
Thanks, but that's OK. Most of our shields are made of T6 aluminum, and some of us (like me!) are moving to shields made of the same materials as originally used, which brings us back to the actual subject of the newsgroup. I bought a Grizzly 14" bandsaw and riser block so I could resaw basswood (pretty much the same as European Linwood, if not exact) and make a two-layer laminated shield. :) Avraham
While steel plate armor has its advantages, it's also heavy and unless it's very carefully crafted it impedes your motion. If you're not both in very good condition and practiced at performing acrobatics in armor, once they get you down you're done for.
A good, fitted suit of plate armor today costs thousands of dollars. Making it yourself might be an interesting exercise, but if you get to where you can make some that you can actually fight in you may find that you can make more as an armorer than you do in your day job. Bear in mind that if it's not fitted right it can damage you all by itself when it takes a blow.
And I think you'll find that lamellar armor works very nicely. The Samurai certainly seemed to think so. The plastic plates would be a viable substitute for boiled leather lamellae IMO, and boiled leather was surprisingly effective against "real swords".
By the way, don't assume that the bokken is not a "real sword". How many swordmasters with steel swords did Musashi kill with one?
I'll raise you a couple years, but agree with the below, plus 3/4 just plain weighs toooooo much.
I also know people that have bought/made this type of armor, the plastic plates cut the cord and it keeps falling apart. Repairable, but a pain in the, ah repair time.
As for shields I have had excellent results from the following method. I take a sheet of 1/8 in door skin and attach (nail) it to a shield press. Then fiberglass the face. Once it is dry, remove and cut to shape. Then fiberglass the back and twice more on the face. Lastly round the edges and fiberglass that.
The shield is lighter and lasts for years (5+ years very active)
PS, I spent time with two of your ex-pats, Earl Cire and Countess Elizabeth
Are you still up in An Tir? I'm surprised even fiberglassed plywood stands up the blow strength there. My period-materials laminated shield does fine here, but I don't know how it would do out there. Avraham huscarl, Calontir
Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 6:56am (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahu.com (Avraham) claims: I *do* wear a real helmet, made of good quality steel. You can't (for a practical amount of money, anyway) make a helmet that won't dent eventually and still be able to wear it and move your head around. I'll admit, it's not a hobby for everyone. On the other hand, we're really trying NOT to hurt each other - the person on the other side of the field is a friend and opponent, not an enemy. Avraham
Well, I won't try to prove it, but I've got an idea or two for a helmet that would hold up, and not be excessively heavy. Thing is, I'd be more worried about my brain churning around, from getting hit in the head, than the helmet denting.
JOAT A highbrow is a person educated beyond his intelligence.
- Brander Matthews
Apr 28, 2005, 8:11am snipped-for-privacy@snet.net.invalid (J.=A0Clarke) sayeth: While steel plate armor has its advantages, it's also heavy and unless it's very carefully crafted it impedes your motion. And I think you'll find that lamellar armor works very nicely. By the way, don't assume that the bokken is not a "real sword". How many swordmasters with steel swords did Musashi kill with one?
I didn't say "plate" armor. When I said "real sword" I meant one with a steel blade and a sharp edge and point.
As far as swordsmanship, there was a Roman who fought duels, and killed his opponents (who had real swords), using a lead sword. Forgot his name, and am not gonna look it up. People capable of things like that are exceptions to the rule, and probably nutters.
JOAT A highbrow is a person educated beyond his intelligence.
- Brander Matthews
You guys want light weight, sword proof armour? Here's some that pretty well guarantees the wearer isn't gonna get hurt by a sword. This is more along my type of thing.
JOAT A highbrow is a person educated beyond his intelligence.
- Brander Matthews
Never was a member of the SCA, but I've met plenty of folks who were (or claimed to be, who really knows?) and the impression I got was that they were not allowed to use plastic armor in any case, as it was not availble during the periods of time they were re-enacting. Most of the abovementioned folks made armor from leather soaked in parafin wax or (if they were *really* into it) hand-hammered iron plates. But you're right in any case- plywood would be kinda neat.
BTW, I thought you had left the group? :)
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
IIRC, the SCA doesn't use actual swords for re-enactment, they use rattan sticks. Plywood might work okay for that. And, of course, it would work great for walking around Rennaisance fairs and the like. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Heh, JOAT, I never appreciated you until just now. :)
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Ah, no Weight is required, at least in the helmet. The mass is part of what absorbs the energy
...
Yup, actually there as been some effort to reduce the level of blows. When Cire came back from a Gulf War, having gotten in trouble for what they thought was an excessive blow we all had a little laugh. Cire is not known for real hard hits, just solid firm ones. BTW, do you know about the Yahoo-Group for period/sca/medieval wood-working?
TTFN Ralph (aka Ralg, insert alphabet soup here)
And you were on about how making a door header too strong would cause high point stresses?
Take a hammer, wang on a piece of 1/8" ply supported by string tied to holes in the corners for a while, let us know how you make out. Talk about high point stresses.
If you study the history of Japan you will find that those rattan sticks properly handled are quite dangerous.
It's becoming clear that you just like to argue.
There are plenty of SCA sites on the Web that discuss this. Plastic is a bit controversial but not in general prohibited. Safety first--if it's the only way you can afford to engage in combat without getting hurt then so be it. There are some other kinds of combat sport that require authenticity, but SCA isn't all about combat, that's just one of their activities, and they are not the "Society for Maintaining Historically Accurate Anachronism", they are the "Society for _Creative_ Anachronism".
You might be confusing SCA with reenactment groups, which are much pickier about such things.
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