Rules on pre-drilling sizes for screws

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"dpb" wrote:

Tough to find people who can work with older technology.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

...
???
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Err, I resemble that statement. Our department has a two-course series:
ECEN 5837 - Mixed-Signal IC Design 3 credit hours Catalog Description: (1) Design of core analog circuits in mixed analog and digital systems, including data converters and sampled-data circuitry, and (2) system level IC design methodologies and CAD based circuit design and layout techniques in mixed analog and digital IC's. Prerequisite: ECEN 5827, Analog IC Design Textbook: Allen and Holberg, CMOS Analog Circuit Design, Oxford, 2002. Course objectives: This course is the second in a two-course series (the first course is ECEN 5827) on integrated circuit design, which together provide a complete set of fundamental concepts and skills for the growing number of students who wish to pursue a career in the semiconductory industry. Graduate students who wish to specialize in research projects related to IC design and power electronics will be required to take both courses in the sequence. Topics: 1. Fully-differential op-amsp, simulation and layout 2. Comparators 3. Switched capacitor circuits 4. Nyquist rate DAC 5. Nyquist rate ADC 6. Over-sampling converters
To be sure, they're graduate-level courses, primarily because most data acquisition systems are either designed into custom ICs, as the courses above, or, just as common, engineers these days use "black box" solutions -- slap together a commercial sample-and-hold, a commercial ADC and output 'em into a circular buffer.
These days at the undergraduate level our kids get courses that teach them how to design systems that *use* the black boxes: Circuits I, II, and III, "Computers as Components," Embedded Systems, and, the topic most often ignored to the peril of the EE, Digital Signal Processing: what to do with all that digital data streaming off at MHz or even, these days, GHz rates.
In the capstone lab they even learn how to solder and wire-wrap. But, as I tell them, even after they graduate they still won't be able to fix their dad's stereo amp. :-)
Oh, right, this is the wreck. I better say 73 and get back to the workshop where I'm fighting with a piece of zebrawood.

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MB wrote:

Don't know why that would be amazing considering the relative pedigree of the two.
VMS was/is quite nice system -- the V4.3 upgrade brought the VAX to a near crawl, however... :(
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Hah. Ada 0.1 on the Difference Engine. :-)
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Argon wrote:

I'll see your abacus and raise you a cuneiform script stick... :)
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VMS also had a great command line language. (Called "DCL", IIRC). You could automate many tasks. Even create simple apps with a little more work. Also, saying that most crashes are due to <fill in the blank>, is missing the point. The point is that VMS did not crash. Windows is where the money is, and VMS is extinct, so that's where I spend my time out of the woodshop. Mac, with it's unix underpinning might be interesting to try...
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MB wrote:

Windows has several different scripting languages available. Don't assume that the DOS shell is the only shell available.

On bad hardware it did. Most Windows 2K/XP/Vista crashes are hardware.
What you're saying, whether you realize it or not, is that a VAX or Alpha with VMS didn't crash. You're ignoring the reliability of the hardware. Put OpenVMS on a non-ECC Itanic with crap RAM and work it hard and you're likely to get a surprise.

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MB said something like:

I rather like that apple (Jobs) decided to give up their broken NIH syndrome and go with unix.
Shows levelheadedness, with a touch of chutzpah...
FTR, I started out on DEC machines, and loved VMS until I ran into Unix, which was a horrific culture shock at the time, but I grew to love it over VMS.
--
"I don't want FOP, God dammit! I'm a DAPPER DAN MAN!"



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MB wrote:

Not quite...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS
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Yep. Much more easily understood. Even by the geeks.
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Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:01:08 -0400, Stephen M wrote:

hex, octal, bi-quinary, excess3, and so on. Who cares.
We could simplify the whole mess by referring to everything in 32nds or 64ths. Using 32nds, 1/2 could then be 16/, 1/4 would be 8/, and so on.
But if the US wouldn't adopt a system as simple as metric, my somewhat tongue-in-cheek idea doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell :-).
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Thomas G. Marshall wrote:

<snip>
See:
http://www.internetwoodworking.com/w5/screws.html
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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All this is interesting. I too, occasionally, use callipers to help in pilot drill bit choice. However, I usually just eyeball it: hold a bit against the screw seeking the bit that looks like it is the same size as the shank of the screw. I don't build wood stuff for NASA.
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the
I usually do that too unless I'm afraid of something splitting or I want to be more exact and then I fit the screw to one of the holes in my drill index. I can tell what kind of grab the screw will have depending on how far up the shaft the threads grab in the index.
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Yeah, I do that too, plus a little trial and error.

I think the answer is that it depends on the wood, and to some degree on the position of the screw.
IME, I seldom need to predrill at all in softwoods. If I am close to the end of the board, where splitting is more likely, I will predrill more often and more agressively.
However, I have found reclaimed very old (soft) wood to be brittle and absotutely required predrilling.
IME, the harder the wood, and the larger the screw, the more particular you should be about pilot hole size.
Cheers,
Steve
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Give that man a silver dollar. I was installing that big honker LV 10-1/2" steel bench vise on my new bench with hard maple blocks to offset the vise from the bottom of the bench. I used 3/8" lag screws, and followed the advice in one of those tables drilled 9/32" pilot holes. the first screw sheared off when it was 1/2 way in.

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