Rest iN peace, Mr. Jobs

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On 10/13/2011 9:20 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Agreed the parent absolutely have the biggest impact however a majority of the parents don't know them selves.

I played that credit game up until 1986 when I bought my first PC. The first thing I did was determine how to pay our house off as quickly as possible. We refinanced out home in 1987 and after paying off our two vehicles and some land that we owed on began putting an extra $300 per month towards our house payment in 1990, 6 years later we were debt free and have remained so ever since. We use a credit card for monthly purchases but those are paid in full monthly. We paid cash for our new house in December.
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I don't think it is. In reducing the cost of U.S.-made goods, the cost of labor and bennies will almost certainly have to come down...unless you can figure out how to limit the profits made by stockholders and wages of CEOs and other upper mangle^H^H^Hagement.

Do you have any good ideas as to how to accomplish that? I'd love it!
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer
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Remember that the dollar is worth far less than it once was?. 1 costs now about US$1.32, but earlier it was almost $1.50. At the high point of the $ vs it was $0.82 or so. So between high and low there is almost a 2-fold difference. The more $ "they" can get for a , the cheaper our goods are to them, and vice versa. And that was without finagling wages or benefits. We would be even richer as a nation if the resulting wealth was spread out more evenly, not going to corporations and really rich people who can afford to stash it abroad.

Good! Same as above: We would be even richer as a nation if the resulting wealth was spread out more evenly, not going to corporations and really rich people who can afford to stash it abroad.

--
Best regards
Han
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And what are your ideas to allow us to achieve either of those goals? Are you talking "redistribution of wealth" here?
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer
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On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:42:07 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

Ever since we stopped living as small groups of hunter-gatherers, the problem of accumulation of excess goods has been with us. The toughest or smartest guys, with the least ethics, glommed onto everything they could and left little for the masses. The advent of technology accelerated the process.
I don't know that there is a solution, since human nature tries to find a way around any restrictions.
Income inequality did seem to be less in the '50s when marginal income tax rates could go up into the confiscatory range, but that may have been a coincidence.
But can anyone truly say that any person is worth more than a million dollars a year? I certainly don't think so.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 00:07:43 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

I picked up a copy of a Tea Party book, Rasmussen's _Mad as Hell_, and it appears we've been taking a dive since the second world war. And I don't think it's just the tax rate adjustments, either.

I don't, either, but we're not shareholders and we're not voting on uber manglement compensation.
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

What's "worth" got to do with anything? Some HAVE more than a million because others willingly GAVE it to them.
Oh, there are exceptions, but in the main the wealthy earned their fortunes.
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On 10/12/2011 9:33 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Those that earned their wealth, how much harder than you did they work to earn that amount?
Lets say you work 40 hours a week and earn $100,000 per year.
Do you think that on average that some one that makes $1,000,000 per year has worked 10 times harder than you?
For the most part the wealthy beyond need just happened to be in the right place at the right time, so to speak.
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What does "how hard they work" have to do with anything. A ditch digger works "harder" than I do, but I make a few times what they do.

They've at least worked 10x smarter than have I. Someone willingly *gave* them that money.

Steve Jobs?
No, they worked to be in the "right place at the right time", often worked to *make* the right time and place. Because you, and I, didn't is no fault of theirs.
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On 10/13/2011 10:14 AM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

I am talking about harder not smarter.
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One's skills don't matter?
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On 10/13/2011 11:12 AM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

When something needs to be created, built, constructed, or erected what basic element MUST you have to get the job done? Without it nothing could be done.
what would be worth more to a company that produced product?
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Those with skills shouldn't be paid more than those who can't?

Usually, the ones who thought up the product, the way to pay for the product, or the ones who protected the investors who paid. You can tell that they're worth more because, well, they're paid more.
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On 10/13/2011 3:21 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Until the skilled laborer begins the work all of those others have limited use and life expectancy. Talking about it, planing it, getting funding is fine but you absolutely must produce the product to justify all keeping their jobs. If management is lost or disrupted it IME can more easily be replaced than than a good labor force. If production is disrupted you are dead in the water. This is especially true in small business. I have mostly worked in small businesses when making the better salaries and have always been in management in those settings. Starting out and while going to school I worked more on the labor end. I can assure you in my experience I worked harder with a skill equal to seasoned employees for less than when I moved up to management. Management was relative easy for me to move into and I ended up managing many areas in the automotive field starting at age 21 until I retired at 41. For the field I was in I feel that I made a relatively good salary with great perks but never felt I was worth more than the guys producing the product. AAMOF in 1983 the owner of our dealership had a constant monthly salary which doubled my salary, he made a flat $10K per month. I had a technician in the shop that often earned a monthly salary greater to the owners salary.
So no, I don't believe that in most cases that some one that makes 10 times the salary works 10 times harder.
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Sure, but there are many more who can "plug slot-A into tab-B" than can design widgets with slots and tabs. These people are worth more.

...as it should be.

But they're not paying for "working hard". They're paying to get a job done. One job was obviously worth more than the other, as it always is.

Again, how "hard" someone works is irrelevant. Again, I'm paid several times what a ditch digger is paid. He works a *lot* harder than do I. My end product is worth a lot more and there are a lot fewer people who can do my job.
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On 10/13/2011 6:22 AM, Leon wrote:

times as much profit as the work you did.
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In the end, how much you make depends on what the person paying thinks your work is worth, not how much you sweat.
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On 2011-10-14 20:09:30 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

In the end, what you make is the lowest amount your employer figures he can get away with paying.
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If you work in a sweat shop, sure.
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On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:33:15 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

But how? There's quote that goes something like "There's no fortune whose origin would stand examination in daylight."
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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