We need to simplify the tax code by eliminating many of the loopholes and
preferences, and tax the wealthier at higher effective rates. Both
corporations and individuals. Payroll taxes have been going up, as have
state and local as well as sales taxes. That has put more and more of
the burden on lower wage earners, while higher wage earners and those not
relying on earned income have gotten a break. It's time to put more
purchasing power in the hands of lower income people.
And, while not really rich, I always have been comfortable.
The REAL inequity is that 49% of the population pays NO taxes at all! How is
I'm with you on eliminating loopholes. There are two goals of the tax system
as it is currently implemented:
1. To raise revenue.
2. To foster (or suppress) social activity.
For example, we think that home ownership is a worthwhile thing, so we give
a tax deduction for mortgage interest payments. We think smoking is bad, so
we put a confiscatory tax on cigarettes.
Only if you are willing to give up the social goals sometimes associated
with taxation will you be able to make the tax system "fair."
Obviously that is NOT true. It only holds for federal income taxes, and
is in part due to the fact that we as society through our representatives
have created a tax code that gives credits for living. Employed people
pay payroll taxes (some of that paid by the employer), they pay state
taxes and sales taxes, and whether or not they own their homes, they pay
property and school taxes.
And to foster or suppress economic activities (this is important too).
We all directly or indirectly agreed to the system at some point. But
now the system has become burdensome by complexity and inequitable
because it created (intended AND unintended) loopholes and special
circumstances. Some of those were created by hanky panky. There should
be an independent nonpartisan committee that examines the "special
categories" and explains who and what the consequences are of each
special condition in the tax code.
Yes indeed!! The social and economic goals need to be reexamined over
time. Is this or that special condition still what we all want? Or
shuld home mortgage interest over a certain amount NOT be deductible
anymore? The AMT was a way to limit deductibility, but the asses didn't
put in a cost of living escalation clause, so now the AMT is applied to
people who aren't that wealthy. Is that right?
I'm sure you and I and others can keep going on ...
I stand corrected due to an omission. Let me re-phrase.
"The REAL inequity is that 49% of the populaton pays NO income taxes at all!
How is that fair? (In fact, a goodly proportion get money FROM the federal
government in the form of 'earned income tax credits'. How is THAT fair?)
Buncha freeloaders, you ask me."
That doesn't change anything. Those people who "freeload" on federal
income taxes still pay all those other taxes. If you really want all
taxes to go per person, rather than be adjusted for total income, you
really would have to raise the incomes at the lower end by 2 or 3 fold.
Unless you want violent revolution.
Any change would have to be "gradual". Those that are paying no federal
taxes would begin to pay federal taxes, small amounts that would
increase over the years. Hopefully when they have to start paying the
government and not milking the government they will look for the
government to also be more responsible. There are exceptions but many
abuse the system.
I could be completely off here but I really believe that many officials
get elected over and over again because of the promises of what the
government can do for the voters. I fell that one segment of voters
are strictly looking for the elected to give hand outs.
EVENTUALLY quit giving hand outs and make every one contribute and I
feel the government will improve. But then all governments are corrupt
and always will be. Sigh!
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:35:43 -0500, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Replace "governments" with "corporations" - heck, replace it with
"people" - the end result will be the same.
Unless you can change human nature, we're all whistling past the
But a limit on the amount of money in any form that any one can
accumulate might work for a few years until the unscrupulous find a way
around it. It's difficult to amass power without money.
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
"Raise the incomes at the lower end"???
Do you mean increase the minimum wage? Heck, many making the minimum wage
aren't worth that much. Raising the minimum wage would result, mostly, in a
spike in unemployment.
IMHO the tax solution is for "everyone" to pay the exact same amount of
taxes. THIS WOULD TAKE SEVERAL YEARS TO IMPLEMENT AND THERE COULD BE
SOME EXCEPTIONS BUT DAMN FEW. Every one means a family of 5 pays 5
times what a single person pays. You might be surprised to learn that
it is doable with the understanding that it would take several years to
Would that be fair? Absolutely. Why should you pay more taxes than
your neighbor when he gets the same benefits as you. Why shouldn't he
pays as much in taxes since he gets the same benefits as you?
A fact, a great number of voters do not pay taxes and expect the
government to take care of them. One political party uses these voters
to keep them in office. Take away the freebies and make everyone pay
their fair share and see what happen with government. No more playing
favorites. Every one will expect the government to trim down and act
responsibly because that will lower everyone's taxes. If you don't pay
taxes you really don't care whether the government is going farther into
debt or not.
We need to get the government back to doing what it was intended to do,
defend out country and maintain the infrastructure.
Sounds good, but what you are asking for is a national sales tax. And
then we'd have to up the wages of lower earning people somehow so they
can pay those taxes. And what are you going to do with people who like
to revel in luxury versus the frugal ones? Levy a luxury tax on luxury
items? In the way the Europeans have different scales of VAT for
different classes of merchandise? Remember that over there VAT goes up
to at least 20% for certain things. (VAT is always included in the sale
Sounds like you're an advocate for my "Fair-Fair Tax" plan. I sent the
outlines to Senator McGovern back when he, as a presidental candidate,
advocated sending everybody $1000. At that time, our population was about
250 million and our national budget was about $250 billion.
That works out to a tax of $1000/per person. Send it in.
Ah, but what about the person who doesn't HAVE $1000?
They could contribute unit of blood platelets (at $100) each month for ten
months and have their taxes for the year paid (I call this my Tax Withdrawal
Sure, you might say, but what about the teen-age mother with four children?
She can't contribute five units of blood platelets and we're certainly not
going to drain toddlers! (that would be cruel). She can contribute a kidney
and get a $25,000 credit, enough for her and her brood for five years
(longer if she contributes blood platelets too). At the end of five years,
perhaps a cornea or half a liver. By the time ten years have passed, her
offspring would be on their own and having their own tax issues.
That sort of thing was done years ago. (I'm not exactly sure of the
details). They were testing antimalarial drugs, and used prisoners as
"volunteers". I think they were promised reduced sentences or so. Some
of those prisoners were black. Blacks have a disproportionally high
incidence of G6PDH deficiency, and got very sick or died from one or
another of those drugs. Like those people who had syphilis, and they
really wanted to document the progress of the disease. So they treated
them with placebo. I had to memorize all those atrocities for our "human
use" submissions for our research. I'm busily trying to forget most of
that. Oh yes, this was in the USA, not Nazi Germany.
GE, and others, paid not taxes because they qualified for various
social-goal tax forgiveness. To the extent these companies participated in
these legislatively-approved social goals, they should be applauded, not
You, me, and our fellow voters encouraged GE's participation. GE didn't make
the rules and shouldn't be criticized for playing by them.
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