RE NYW Kitchen Project

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Been watching this mini series the last few weeks.
Couple of interesting tricks.
The use of a continuous groove in the cabinet wall for the biscuits used to locate face frames thus eliminating nails, etc.
Looks like a good approach.
Anybody using this technique on a regular basis?
An old boat builder's trick.
Using a surveyor's transit or level to shoot a level reference line on the walls to eliminate floor variations in an older building.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Anybody else use this technique?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I use a different method that uses a dado in the back of the face frame to accept the cabinet sides, floor and/ or top

http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects7.htm
Scroll down to the two paragraphs just above "Day 2 ... "
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"Swingman" wrote:

Assume these are stopped dados.

SFWIW, a water level gets the job done with a lot less hassle.
A little water and some food coloring and you are in business.
Lew
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The stile dados are through, top to bottom. The floor rail dado T's into the stile dado. You don't see a dado unless you remove the counter top or put a mirror under the toe kick.
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"Leon" wrote:

----------------------------- Do you use pocket screw joinery for the face frames?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

You bet .. meaning once the cabinet sides, and top and bottom, are glued into those dadoes in the back of the face frame, which further reinforces the face frame joinery, you have a helluva stout unit ... and, if the face frame is square to start with, you now have a strong, "square" cabinet.
Except for choice of materials, this is actually the way most high end factory made kitchen cabinets are made because the method lends itself well to batch cutting and doing production runs, ending up in components that fit together well without having to hassle with fitting during installation.
Strangely enough it is a method that is substantially like the one used by an old cabinet maker I worked for in England many years ago ... which I thought was kinda neat, but proving there are methods that are hard to improve on and that have stood the test of time.
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"Swingman" wrote:

Now comes the next question.
Is the face frame stock wide enough to allow for the dado cut and the pocket screw to be side by side or are the pocket screw and the dado on top of one another?
Seems like side by side could be a problem.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Pocket holes are usually on the rail, a bottom rail on a base cabinet, and both top and bottom rails on a wall cabinet.
The only time it may remotely be an issue, then not much of one, is on the bottom rail of the typical base cabinet.
A FF rail for a base cabinet that is 1 1 /2" wide has plenty of room for a 3/4" dado AND one pocket hole screw on each side.
(most wall cabinets will have wider rails, both top and bottom, to make room for trim on top, and recessed lighting on bottom, usually 2 to 2 1/2", or more).
This single pocket hole screw on the bottom rail is quite sufficient for the purpose, particularly if you use glue on the joint (even though it is end grain on on side) AND, most importantly, the cabinet sides and bottom, when applied and glued into the dadoes, amply reinforce this "single pocket hole screw" joint between the rail and stile.
In short, not a problem ...
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"Swingman" wrote:

Ah So, understand.
This NYW project wsas designed to have painted Poplar cabinets.
The paint schedule was interesting.
Two (2) primer coats followed by a satin oil base finish coat.
The primer coats were sanded with 320 between coats.
No mention was made of the time schedule, but allowing the primer enough time to cure enough for sanding didn't just happen.
Anybody want to hazard a guess?
Lew
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On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:40:01 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"

Haven't seen the show, but it could be done in a day or two. It all depends on the product they spray, size of the job, size of the crew and spray booth/drying are size. Lacquers, surfacers and many water based lacquers (modified acylics) dry quickly - easily in half an hour, quicker if heat is used to help the process. Three coats in a day possible with some jobs, doors can take a little longer having to do both sides.
Jeffo
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scrawled the following:

Do both sides of the door in one hanging with these, Jeffo: (shit, I can't find them anywhere) Well, they're rotatable hooks with an expandable 30mm disc which fit into the euro hole in the cabinet doors so you can hang 'em for spraying. I could have sworn LVT had them, and I can't find them on WWHardware, either. Go figure.
Note to WeeGee: The Master Rockhard Table Top Varnish I used on the freebie dining table was as follows:
"Put a beautiful, hard amber finish on your fine furniture projects! This top-of-the-line phenolic resin short oil varnish has a low percentage of oil for a super durable finish. Perfect for tabletops where a harder finish is required. "
http://www.waterlox.com/site/431/default.aspx Waterlox is tung oil and phenolic resin.
"Waterlox vs. Urethane - Waterlox forms a protective finish that wont chip, peel, crack, or wrinkle. Waterlox never requires sanding for adhesion purposes. So touch-ups can be done at any time without sanding down to the bare wood. Waterlox gives you a naturally beautiful, protective finish that never looks like a sheet of plastic"
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

I love Behlen's Rockhard Table Top Varnish, but if you're sanding for a repair or a re-coat and you happen to break through from one coat into the next, it *will* give you "witness lines". DAMHIKT. This is why I tend to prefer lacquer type finishes where later coats always "melt" into prior coats.

Based on that description, it sounds like Waterlox isn't that much different than Behlen's Rockhard... What do you perceive the differences to be Larry?
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On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:19:23 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner

Yeah, I hear that. I'm heavily into rubbing vs. spray finishes, and the oils tend to melt and meld nicely.

Night and day. Rockhard is a thick, shiny finish while Waterlox is a thin, rubbing finish which allows the feel of the wood to come through. I use the satin, BTW. While Waterlox -can- be applied thickly, it has a whole different feel, even at that thickness. It could be the quantity of oil in Waterlox. It's mostly tung oil.
I've never sanded an old, weathered, abused Waterlox finish, so I don't know if it'd leave witness lines, but I've never seen a WL in new finish application and smooth sanding between coats.
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Gotcha; thanks.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

You mean these: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page 113&filterbinet%20door%20finishing
or these:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page 907&filter=finishing%20hook
or these:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page !448&filter=finishing%20hook
~Mark.
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On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:45:59 -0500, the infamous Woody

Bingo! Thanks. I forgot to search the Rockler site. (slaps forehead)
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:21:10 -0800, Larry Jaques

Thanks for the tip guys. I should pass through here more often, you pick up some handy info! I'll give them a try next time I'm finishing a bunch of doors
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On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 14:40:01 -0800, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"

Primer dries in a heartbeat, Lew. What's to "cure"?
-- Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost. -- Thomas J. Watson
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

You would notice, if you read it of course, that I do indeed mention the use of water levels?? <g>
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"Swingman" wrote:

Haven't checked lately, but these days my guess is that laser levels are getting very competitively priced.
After all, they have been using them to shoot T-Bar ceilings in commercial buildings since the early 70's.
Lew
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