RE NYW Kitchen Project

[Lew Hodgett]

Been watching this mini series the last few weeks.

Couple of interesting tricks.

The use of a continuous groove in the cabinet wall for the biscuits used to locate face frames thus eliminating nails, etc.

Looks like a good approach.

Anybody using this technique on a regular basis?

An old boat builder's trick.

Using a surveyor's transit or level to shoot a level reference line on the walls to eliminate floor variations in an older building.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Anybody else use this technique?

Lew

[Swingman]

I use a different method that uses a dado in the back of the face frame to accept the cabinet sides, floor and/ or top

down to the two paragraphs just above "Day 2 ... "

[Lew Hodgett]

Assume these are stopped dados.

SFWIW, a water level gets the job done with a lot less hassle.

A little water and some food coloring and you are in business.

Lew

[Leon]

The stile dados are through, top to bottom. The floor rail dado T's into the stile dado. You don't see a dado unless you remove the counter top or put a mirror under the toe kick.

[Lew Hodgett]

----------------------------- Do you use pocket screw joinery for the face frames?

Lew

[Swingman]

You bet .. meaning once the cabinet sides, and top and bottom, are glued into those dadoes in the back of the face frame, which further reinforces the face frame joinery, you have a helluva stout unit ... and, if the face frame is square to start with, you now have a strong, "square" cabinet.

Except for choice of materials, this is actually the way most high end factory made kitchen cabinets are made because the method lends itself well to batch cutting and doing production runs, ending up in components that fit together well without having to hassle with fitting during installation.

Strangely enough it is a method that is substantially like the one used by an old cabinet maker I worked for in England many years ago ... which I thought was kinda neat, but proving there are methods that are hard to improve on and that have stood the test of time.

[Lew Hodgett]

Now comes the next question.

Is the face frame stock wide enough to allow for the dado cut and the pocket screw to be side by side or are the pocket screw and the dado on top of one another?

Seems like side by side could be a problem.

Lew

[Swingman]

Pocket holes are usually on the rail, a bottom rail on a base cabinet, and both top and bottom rails on a wall cabinet.

The only time it may remotely be an issue, then not much of one, is on the bottom rail of the typical base cabinet.

A FF rail for a base cabinet that is 1 1 /2" wide has plenty of room for a 3/4" dado AND one pocket hole screw on each side.

(most wall cabinets will have wider rails, both top and bottom, to make room for trim on top, and recessed lighting on bottom, usually 2 to 2

1/2", or more).

This single pocket hole screw on the bottom rail is quite sufficient for the purpose, particularly if you use glue on the joint (even though it is end grain on on side) AND, most importantly, the cabinet sides and bottom, when applied and glued into the dadoes, amply reinforce this "single pocket hole screw" joint between the rail and stile.

In short, not a problem ...

[Lew Hodgett]

Ah So, understand.

This NYW project wsas designed to have painted Poplar cabinets.

The paint schedule was interesting.

Two (2) primer coats followed by a satin oil base finish coat.

The primer coats were sanded with 320 between coats.

No mention was made of the time schedule, but allowing the primer enough time to cure enough for sanding didn't just happen.

Anybody want to hazard a guess?

Lew

[Swingman]

You would notice, if you read it of course, that I do indeed mention the use of water levels??

[Jeffo]

Haven't seen the show, but it could be done in a day or two. It all depends on the product they spray, size of the job, size of the crew and spray booth/drying are size. Lacquers, surfacers and many water based lacquers (modified acylics) dry quickly - easily in half an hour, quicker if heat is used to help the process. Three coats in a day possible with some jobs, doors can take a little longer having to do both sides.

Jeffo

[Lew Hodgett]

Haven't checked lately, but these days my guess is that laser levels are getting very competitively priced.

After all, they have been using them to shoot T-Bar ceilings in commercial buildings since the early 70's.

Lew

[Leon]

Swingman and I used a laser level on the last kitchen install that we did together. That worked out pretty nicely.

[Lew Hodgett]

Did you/buy?

Would you do it on the next job?

Lew

[Leon]

Swingman bought it, Ryobi. I would certainly use it again, the continous red laser line over a level gives you a long level line around the room vs. chasing a level.

HD

[Swingman]

Actually I have three laser levels.

The one Leon is talking about is not a high dollar unit, runs in $50 -

70 range, IIRC from Lowe's or Home Depot. It does what I need it to do. Has both horizontal and vertical beams, is self leveling and fits on an old camera tripod. I always take it with me to a job site, so yes, it will be used on the next job. There are many, much more expensive, units available.

If you want, I'll get the particulars when I get to the shop.

Let me know.

[Swingman]

Damn ... didn't remember the name, and thought the line was green!!

Thankee ... :)

[Tom Watson]

Hey Karl, I've got a kitchen ceiling to begin on Monday that is pretty much a potato chip, being 4" out in 12' and with an inconsistent variation to boot. I got my water level out and the tube is all green from bioshit. Sounds like one of these gizmos might be the ticket and cheap enough to absorb into a single project, if need be.

If you have a good cheap one to vouch for, I'd be glad to hear about it. I've stayed away from them because anything better than a toy was too spendy.

Thanks.

tom

Regards,

Tom Watson

[Swingman]

Tom,

As you well know, you get what you pay for, but this Ryobi unit that Leon provided the links for works just fine for the price.

Obviously wouldn't recommend it for laying out a foundation, but it does the job inside just fine. I would try to use it on a tripod if you have one ... took a standard camera body thread, may have even had a adapter for same.

I liked the fact that it self leveled very quickly, and had both vertical and horizontal beams ... but it is plastic for the most part.

Basically paid for itself on the first kitchen, as far as I'm concerned.

IOW, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again, if necessary, just to do one kitchen installation with more than one wall.

[Leon]

If you want it in green