Re: My second kickback - time for a question

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This has absolutely no effect on kickback.

Bad advice. This makes kickback *more* likely, not less. The lower the blade, the shallower the angle at which the teeth contact the wood, and the greater the horizontal component of the force exerted on the wood by the blade. This force is directed back toward the operator.

More bad advice. Deliberately bind the saw? What happens if/when it comes free, genius?

Unnecessary, as many have pointed out.

He didn't describe a tapered fence. Read it again.

Doesn't this contradict your advice in #5 above to bind the blade?

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com says...

where the wood climbs the back of the sawblade and is violently thrown forward by the rotation of the blade.
If the bottom of the wood shows tooth marks on its surface that's kickback :-).
That said, I've always heard that the blade should be at most high enough above the wood that the gullets are clear. That minimizes the depth of cut to the operators hand :-).
But the smoothest cut is achieved where the blade is high above the wood because of the angle you mention.
So take your pick. Safety or smoothness.
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:12:42 -0700, Larry Blanchard

The advice I gave was some general safety advice, Larry...and not necessarily meant to combat just kickback. In essence, of course, much of it was personal opinion.
I agree about your gullet advice. As I suggested in my post, a 1/2" or so above the stock will usually do it.
Bottom line...I think the OP came here for advice...and he's gettin' plenty of it. lol He'll need to assimilate what he wants to...and then develop his own style and rules for woodworking.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Cat...the OTHER white meat!
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com says...

that the wood has to climb the back of the blade and be flung forward by the rising teeth in order to get a kickback?
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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I also contend that the forward-flinging force is greater at lower blade heights. Clearly the rising force is greater at a higher blade height, but I believe that it is easier to resist that force; among other things, its magnitude is less.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 02:17:00 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I didn't label my post as anti-kickback measures...and they all weren't meant to be. You need to read for comprehension...and quit assuming things.

Bull. But yer entitled to your opinion.
I never have more blade exposed than is necessary to get a clean cut.

I didn't say 'deliberately bind the saw'. You really have a hard time with the English language, don't you.
What I DID say...
With a low horsepower motor...or with a belt set to that it will slip at high resistance...the blade will bind...and stop rotating. Is this a good setup for the average woodworker? Probably not. But its the way that many of us learned...the ones who had to BUILD their first table saw...as I did...and cut with a 1/4 horse motor.
What happens when it comes free? You just take the board out! Duh! Because by then, you've turned off the motor...so you just gently take it out and start again.
This is NOT recommended advice for most folks. But this is the kinda saw that I learned on...before every saw had 1-2 hp motors. If you didn't feed the stock straight...and at the proper forward pressure...the blade would freeze up on you.
It was a great learning tool. You should try building your own table saw some time.

Necessary...as many others have pointed out.

What the hell are you talkin' about NOW?!! lol

Not at all.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Cat...the OTHER white meat!
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to read for comprehension.

No, not bull. But you're still wet behind the ears. You'll figure it out eventually.

Read what you wrote, dumb-ass. You advised him to adjust the saw so that the blade will bind. IOW, you advised him to do exactly the thing that will *create* a kickback. Did you happen to read Leon's response to you, where he pointed out the same thing? I'm not picking on you. You're giving _dangerous_ advice.

What you DID say is "consider ... adjusting your present saw so the blade will bind". This CREATES kickback.

No, that is NOT what you said. Look above. You even quoted it yourself.
In any event, *both* what you said originally, and what you now claim you said, are very dangerous, extremely bad advice.

So why are you advising him to do something that even you admit is "probably not" "a good setup for the average woodworker"?

No, you idiot, when you take your hand off of it to reach for the motor switch, it comes flying back in your face because you're not holding it down anymore. DUH!

Correction: it's not recommended advice for ANYONE. What you suggest here is dangerous. If you want to be a reckless idiot in your own shop, fine with me. But don't advise others to follow your example.

Ah, I see. You started out using a cheap POS table saw that wasn't strong enough to kick a board back. So now you think that you know how to prevent kickback.

You obviously didn't learn very much from it. You should stop giving advice on subjects that you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
Explain the many posts from people who have set their fences dead parallel to the blade. If it's "necessary" as you claim to toe the fence away from the blade, how come these people aren't constantly experiencing kickbacks?
Explain this excerpt from "The Table Saw Book" by Kelly Mehler: "Every table saw comes with a rip fence, which must be properly aligned for the blade to cut safely and efficiently. As discussed on p. 56, the rip fence can be set parallel to the sawblade, or slightly out of parallel (with the fence a mere 1/64 in. farther from the rear of the sawblade than from the front of the blade). [Chap. 6, Ripping, page 92] He then goes on to discuss the pros and cons of each approach.
Or this from "Table Saw Magic" by Jim Tolpin: "Safe and accurate ripping requires that the rip fence be parallel to the blade." [page 39]
Or this: "An easy and accurate way to ensure that the rip fence locks up parallel to the blade is to align it parallel to one of the miter gauge grooves, which you have already aligned parallel to the blade as one of the first steps in your tune-up." [Tolpin, page 43]
Do you consider yourself to be more of an expert on table saws than Tolpin and Mehler? Maybe you should write your own book.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:39:17 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Exactly. Now ya got it.
Whew...TOOK ya long enough!
Now...go play with your bolt! lol
Have a nice week...
Trent
Cat...the OTHER white meat!
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It didn't take *me* any time at all to "get it". Have *you* figured out yet that the advice you gave was stupid, dangerous, and not based on any real degree of experience?
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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He doesn't have quite the earmarks of a troll, I don't believe. All the evidence so far suggests that he's just an idiot.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:

Because, as we all know, all trolls are idiots, but not all idiots are trolls. Thankfully.
-BAT
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What if you want to cut a bevel down the edge of the board???

Umm the blade binding is exactly what causes kick back.... IMHO more hp will cause the balde to simply cut through the material rather than bind, slowdown, catch and throw back the piece. I had many more possible kick back episodes with a low hp TS than a 3 ho TS.

Then, the left, waste side of the board binds against the left back side of the blade.
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Another newbie here - I had one when I first started (just a few short months ago). I think one of the main things is that the blade is set parallel to the table/mitre grooves. I spent some time adjusting that and now the saw works much better. It's a fairly low cost Craftsman ($500). I also invested in a better blade ($50) which also helped a bunch.

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: I just had my second kickback in a couple of months and, since I am a : newbie, I have to ask a question that I've been wondering about. Why is : the fence the same width from the front to the back? Wouldn't there be : considerably less chance of kickback/binding if the last third of the : fence was narrower by say one-eighth of an inch on its blade side?
The answer to this query might be found on my web site - please look at 'Circular Sawbench Safety' - 'Fences'.
Jeff G
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username is amgron ISP is clara.co.uk Website www.username.clara.net
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This month's Wood magazine: In the cover picture the saw operator is standing directly in the plane of the sawblade, one hand on either side of the blade, ripping what appears to be a piece of soft maple (a guess from the materials used to make the shop cabinets). Picture is repeated on page 44. Of course, he's using a splitter and safety glasses, so 2 out of 3...
Cheers, Eric
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