Question about decks and Kreg Jig kit...

[Upscale]

I've just been looking at the Kreg Deck jig being advertised on Lee Valley's website.

was wondering about fastening deck boards as demonstrated by this jig. For those of you experienced with building decks, would the screws need to be inserted on both sides of a deck board, (assuming there's just enough room for screws to be inserted on a 45 degree angle both edges) or just on one edge? And if it is just one edge for fastening down a deck board, wouldn't there be a tendency for the opposite unfastened edge to rise or perhaps cup over time?

Thanks

[Josepi]

Usually one edge but then there would need to be an equivalent of tongue-in-groove hardware to hold down the other side of the plank.

I prefer my deck boards screwed down, when using real wood. Warping, splitting and cracking will give you a mess and it probably costs more than the decking lumber.

I've just been looking at the Kreg Deck jig being advertised on Lee Valley's website.

was wondering about fastening deck boards as demonstrated by this jig. For those of you experienced with building decks, would the screws need to be inserted on both sides of a deck board, (assuming there's just enough room for screws to be inserted on a 45 degree angle both edges) or just on one edge? And if it is just one edge for fastening down a deck board, wouldn't there be a tendency for the opposite unfastened edge to rise or perhaps cup over time?

Thanks

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[Robatoy]

Looking at a nice Kreg display at David Eisan's store a couple of days ago, my hunch is that they don't sell jigs. They sell screws. The good ol' 'sell-through' concept. Sorta kinda like Gillette selling blades, not razors. Or the old days of Xerox. They didn't sell copiers, they sold toners, chemicals and paper. Regardless, I like that Kreg bunch. Great solutions, quality tools and a savvy management team. Good on them.

[Chasgroh]

...I like Kreg products, but I don't know 'bout this method/tool. It doesn't seem, by the very nature of installation of deck boards, that there would be room to fit the jig on the other side. I'd be a bit leary, in any case, that the screw head (and countersink hole that it resides in) would be facing up to catch moisture. Absolute best system of invisible fastening is a stainless bracket installed on the joisting lengthwise, that allows the installer to screw up into the deck board from below. Slick.

cg

[SonomaProducts.com]

Disclaimer: Just an opinion

This looks like a solution in search of a problem driven by the need to grow the business. Looks like a miss rather than a hit, such as their first great idea of bringing pocket holes to the masses. Lots of great products are followed up by derivitves that don't deliver near the same value.

Problems?

1. Yes, I would also assume a one sided attachment is not a good thing. The first basic but glaring deal breaker flaw.
2. If you read the text, first drill a pilot hole, then place the jig, then use the special screws and special driver so screw can be driven through drill bushing. Plus plastic deck spacers. Lots of special things to keep track of, lots of steps for somewhat less than optimal result.
3. Yeah, side placed hole is hidden but no better than top down hole in terms of water intrusion.
4. Competing against top down screwing and 100 different bottom and side attach brackets.

"Maybe" they can make enough from the hobbiest market but seems like a real market miss in terms of a good distribution channel. It needs to be in home depot not Woodcraft and not so many folks buy $100 specialized tools for the one deck job they do per 20 years in home depot.

[Jesse]

The Kreg Deck Jig is used to secure both sides of the board. The Jig appears to have a built in spacer for spacing the decking 1/4" from the adjacent board.And the jig is available at Lowes. Not sure how well it will work as i have no experience building decks.But if I ever give it a shot will give a review .

[CW]

Take a lookat this:

a very practical device, IMO.

[GROVER]

TOH demonstrated a few seasons ago, an invisible deck fastening system called EB-TY (easy to find with Google search). This uses a #20 biscuit slot with their proprietary hardware. Tom Silva made it look easy. He makes most jobs look easier than they are. It does fasten both edges of the deck board.

Joe G

[DerbyDad03]

re: "a built in spacer for spacing the decking 1/4" from the adjacent board."

If I had put 1/4" spacing between the boards when I built my deck, combat boots, nevermind high heels, would fit through the gaps once the boards dried out.

I left *no* gap and the boards shrunk just enough for a small gap to open up so water runs through but heels don't.

Actually, I have one pair of stilettos that give me trouble...whoops...wrong group. Nevermind.

[Swingman]

LOL..

Time honored gap hereabouts for the last 100 years ... the width of the shank of a 16d nail.

[-MIKE-]

Yeah, I never understood that. I guess I can see it for composite, but not treated. Pressure treated lumber has something like 30% moisture content. Those things shrink at least 1/4". Even Cedar is going shrink some.

I use a pry bar to squeeze treated decking boards together as tight as I can, so when they shrink, there's a small gap... as you described. I see so many decks with 1/2"+ gaps in the decking. I immediately think, "yep, they used a spacer to set a gap."

[SonomaProducts.com]

I didn't listen to audio but watching it the only time they show screwing from both sides it looks like about 1/2" gap.

[RonB]

My first impression, and I might be totally wrong. But it looks like it would slow the process quite a bit.

With that said, I suspect they have thought it through. Most Kreg products reflect a fair amount of thought and utility.

RonB

[Jay Pique]

I think that depends on how wet your wood is when you install it. I've seen decks that were installed like that and they still have no space between the boards so now water just pools up and you get green mildew all over it in a hurry. Unless it was dead sopping I'd use some sort of spacer.

JP

[Josepi]

Most PT wood has not shrunk, yet, when you buy it, no matter what the moisture, content. It typically takes a full year to shrink back but it works very well in our climate. As well most decent lumber yards keep the PT outside in the rain, covered up in a steam bath.

Water moisture may not be the only factor in wood shrinkage.

JP

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[-MIKE-]

I've seen dried out green wood at the home stores, but I would never by it because it's always twisted. It probably varies with region, but around here, the green stuff weighs 2-3 times that of dry lumber. That's all moisture... 70-80% of which will dry out.

I've seen that there are newer techniques for treating lumber that don't involve pumping it full of liquid. I think that's better for all of us.

[-MIKE-]

I would contend that it's the only factor, along with whatever carrier they use to inject the insecticide into the wood, *if* it is something other than water.

I would be eager to corrected if wrong, but it's my understanding that H2O in liquid or vapor form is the only thing that causes the initial shrinking of lumber and its consequent seasonal expansion and contraction.

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 14:32:19 -0500, -MIKE- wrote the following:

I use my 1/4" square drive bit to set the gap. It ensures that not much debris will get caught between the boards to keep them wet and continue to degrade them. Nobody I know wears stiletto pumps. I can't even remember ever -seeing- a lady in heels on a deck, so I'm not worried. YMMV.

P.S: Ever see what happens to a composite deck when no spacing is left between the boards and the summer sun hits it? SPROING! Screws pop through the deck boards as they find themselves confined and deck boards go tilting upward.

-- It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin

[-MIKE-]

Yeah, any of that stuff with plastic in it expands quite a bit, doesn't it?

[Nova]

A major local lumber yard in my area actually has resorted to watering their pressure treated lumber to prevent it from drying out and twisting on their dime. When it's cut water sprays off the saw blade.