*Putting* water in your DC collection bin?

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Okay, this is probably is going to strike most of you as a horrific idea... but the more I thought about it, the more sense (or, at least, the less nonsense) it made.
Back when I was making my own Biesemeyer clone (http://joe.emenaker.com/Table-Saw%20Fence/Table-Saw%20Fence.html ), I was cutting a lot of angle-iron and steel tubing on my RAS fitted with a metal-cutting wheel. Boy, did that thing make sparks like the dickens! I thought it was going to ignite the sawdust which had accumulated behind the RAS from earlier projects.
Well, I'm about to buy a DC and make my own cyclone for it. It struck me that I'd be *asking* for trouble if I tried cutting metal with a DC hooked up and running.
But what if I had a cyclone which emptied into a bin with a little water in it? The water would catch all/most of those sparks. Not only that, but it would be nice just for plain wood chips, since it would help keep them under control when you detatch the bid to dump it out... and it would help guard against some other DC-related fire hazards (like hitting a nail or something).
So, I figured I'd ask: Does anybody out there *do* this? Alternatively, has this been discussed before?
- Joe
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...until the sawdust and woodchips wicked it all up.

I used to have an old Allis Chalmers tractor that had a glass jar as part of the air filtering mechanism, maybe was supposed to be filled with (what?) to catch things going by, but I think the water would rapidly turn into slightly moist sawdust and a hard cake.
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Hi Dave, You are right about ending up with sawdust cake. I tried it in a plastic receiver as an attempt to knock down the small dust particles as they impinged on the surface. It works but the rapid passage of high volumes of air caused the water to evaporate very quickly. Very moist air going through the blower et al is not going to do it much good either. Cheers, JG
Dave Hinz wrote:

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On your tractor, that glass jar was supposed to be filled with .... air. The use of glass jars as dust traps was a simple, easily replaceable mechanism for filtering air prior to the engine intake. It may also have had an adjunct oil-bath air cleaner that used oil to further trap particles.
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Oh good, because that's what I always kept in there.

It did, indeed, have an oil-bath air cleaner. Nice little old tractor, but that magneto was a perpetual problem. It has gone to a better place now, though. (No, really, a friend who collects 'em bought it for parts to restore another of the same type).
Dave
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Joe Emenaker wrote:

Now you end up with damp wood with an oxygen source. Can you say "spontaneous combustion"?

--
--John
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--------Or a great source of MOULDS.

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Do you have any record of spontaneous combustion coming about from dried wood, subsequently rendered wet as he describes? Don't think it happens.
rhg
J. Clarke wrote:

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What, spontaneous combustion in moist wood-like substances, or from someone specifically in this situation you mean?
It's certainly not much different from any other wet hay-like situation. And I have stuck my hands into a pile of fresh sawdust to find it was warm inside.
Dave Hinz
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I note the word "fresh" in your answer. Now read the question.
wrote:

happens.
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I would, my top-posting friend, but you've quoted in such a way to make it inconvenient. Also, whatever your point may be is masked by your apparent attitude, so I can't see much point. Maybe you're saying that moist sawdust is different somehow from moist sawdust?
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Are you bottom-posting because your brains are there?
As I said before, it is volatile organics produced by _GREEN_ hay or manure, or sawdust which ignite.
It is a chemical reaction, and those chemicals are no longer present in hay properly crimped and dried, or as the question to which you allegedly replied, previously dried wood shavings.
You're sitting in front of a reference library, why not look up the real answer instead of displaying your ignorance and then trying to defend it with ad hominem bullshit (which ignites less readily than horse, because cattle are more efficient in their digestion).
http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/livestock/dairy/facts/hayfires.htm
And any number of places.
wrote:

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No, I'm posting in the order that conversations take place in, so as not to (ahem) come accross as an arrogant person whose pronouncements shalt be the last word.

You seem to be equating my "fresh sawdust" with "green hay or manure" now, which is most decidedly not what I had written.

So, the pile of sawdust I stuck my hands into wasn't really warm then? Odd, sure felt like it.


Yes, I'm familiar with wet hay fires. Are you going on record as saying damp sawdust cannot spontaneously combust? How sure are you of this? Showing that hay combusts for reason (A), and showing that sawdust does not have reason (A), does not mean sawdust does not spontaneously combust, it just means it doesn't spontaneously combust _for that precise reason_. Yes?
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I'm going to have to go with Dave on this, growing up my dad was the fire chief in a rural town in eastern ID, my grandfather was the fire chief in Rexburg( 3 miles away), according to them you should NEVER leave wet Organic material, hey, sawdust, grass clipping, etc. where they can't dry, they'll begin to rot which makes heat, then they start to smolder, and as soon as there exposed to air (like dumping the container) they'll burst into flames, ever wonder why the trash company doesn't want to take yard clipping?
Dave Hinz wrote:

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Does that mean I can't put them in a closed compost bin then? They surely won't dry there (but they will get pretty warm).

My trash company takes yard waste. One can either rent a bin from the City or pile the stuff in the street for pickup.
scott
(However, I just emptied the DC into the compost pile last weekend, and within a couple of hours, the chips (on the top of the pile) were at well over 110 degree F - Now, mind you, I was jointing and planing both green 2x6's and KD studs, so there was definitely green wood in the pile).
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Scott Lurndal wrote:

The key there is _closed_. No oxygen.

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--John
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Hey guys, go check out this site... they used wood chips and compost to heat water to over 140 degrees!
http://www.motherearthnews.com/menarch/archive/issues/062/062-092-01.htm
writes:

fire
in
dry,
as
well
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Did you do any search at all, or read the material I referenced?
Did you catch the significance of the CRITICAL temperature? 100 C / 212 F is the boiling point of water, which, up until that temperature is reached, has been cooling the mass by evaporation, preventing ignition. You see, wet hay, even when green, has to dry out before it can combust.
As I look out to the north I see round bales stretching across the next 40. All have great bulk to provide insulation, all are undeniably wet, and none are flaming, because the volatile organics which cause spontaneous ignition are not there.
Oh yes, you put out a hay fire with water.

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Yep, on record as saying that, absent the volatile organics which are the source of the ignition, you have wet sawdust, which won't burn on its own or with a flame until the water is expelled. Fresh sawdust and fresh hay outgas the same.
The wonderful thing about science is that there is a cause - effect, reproducible outcome.
You find yourself approached to serve on many product liability juries? Seems you're what the ambulance chasers would like.
wrote:

manure,
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George wrote:

George, comments like that make it clear that you can't stand to have anyone disagree with you and when you can't convince someone with facts and figures (and you're not going to with the kind of assertions you're making because you're assuming that the existence of one mechanism of ignition precludes the existence of others and further, you're arguing that in the presence of unknowns one should take the dangerous path rather than then safe one) you'd rather insult them than agree to disagree and get on with your life.
If science knew everything then the scientists would be out of a job. Remember that.

--
--John
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