Problems with 3/16" blade on my 14" bandsaw - help needed please

About 18 months ago I bought a Grizzly 14" bandsaw. Until recently I have been very happy using a 1/2" Woodslicer recommended to me by members of this group. I have a project that involves a lot of almost scroll saw type cuts so I bought a 3/16" blade. I am darned if I can keep the blade centered on my tires. Just when I think I have it, next thing I know, it rolls off the tires and I have to start all over again.
I'm sure I am making some kind of dumb newbie mistake. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
TIA.
Dick Snyder
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Narrow blades require a closer tolerance for wheels being coplanar. So that's the first thing I would check. Make sure there isn't a "high" spot (ridge) on the tires. *If* the blade is "rolling" off the tires toward one side (front or back) consistently, you should be able to adjust the angle of the top wheel to correct that . There will likely be a "groove" (not literally) where the blade wants to ride; find that "groove". It will take some trial and error. (Ideally it will be in the center of the tires; but not always) You should be able to find a "groove" where the blade will ride well (with the guides backed off) Once the blade rides consistently, adjust the guides accordingly.
JM2C.
Max
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Coplanar would be my guess. Forget the rest of what he said. All wheels have a high spot. That is how the blade finds its equillibrium. remove the table and stick a straight edge on the wheels, Adjust so that they are both planar. Shim it, or move the arm if necessary. I had to on my crappy USA made delta... I had to remove the pin to get it coplanar. But once I got my saw sorted out it works well.
On 2/14/2011 9:29 PM, Max wrote:

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On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:06:59 -0500, "Dick Snyder"

The only questions I can think of are "Are you getting the smaller blade too hot so it expands/falls off?"
and
"How's the tension?"
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:06:59 -0500, "Dick Snyder"

Third question: Did you adjust the thrust bearings properly? They'll need to be moved forward for the narrower blade.
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer
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I'd ask: can you get the blade to run okay when not cutting, or does it run off even then? If it only runs off when cutting, I'd second the post about the thrust bearings. I have a smaller band saw, but hopefully similar in design. The thrust bearings are the disk-type bearings that the blade pushes against when it is under load. There are two of them; one on the upper adjustable guide and one under the table. With thin blades, even a slight misalignment between the upper and lower thrust bearings can put a kink in the blade that can force it off a tire. I even use 1/8" blades on my saw with success. I slow the saw down to about 150 sfm and cut 1/8" steel sheet with it and have no trouble. If nothing else works, one might get another blade, on the theory that this blade has a problem.
Pete Stanaitis --------------------
Dick Snyder wrote:

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I backed off the guides completey. By adjusting the angle of the top tire I got the blade going good. When I started to add tension, that is when things went bad quickly.
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Dick Snyder wrote:

So what happens when you readjust the top wheel tilt?
Turn wheel by hand, add tension, adjust tilt, repeat as needed.
--

dadiOH
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I did all the setup by spinning the wheel with my hand though I didn't do much with the tension - just enough tension to make sure the blade didn't fall off the tires. Maybe I need to do both the setup on the tires AND the tension by hand before turning the saw on??
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Dick Snyder wrote:

Good plan
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dadiOH
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Less robustly built band saws will "bend/give" somewhere when tension is applied, The more finicky the blade the more exaggerated the problem will be. I would suggest that you adjust tension first and then adjust the top wheel tilt to keep the blade centered. When you add tension you are pulling things out of alignment again. With the more ridged band saws this is typically not a concern.
Then again some bandsaws simply are a PIA with certain sized blades.
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I don't own a band saw, but I did read an article not too long ago, that suggested different sized blades crown differently based on the type of tire that's being used. It stated that when one is having tracking problems that increasing or perhaps reducing the crown on a tire can help with such a problem.
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wrote in message

That can help however reducing the crown for one blade may create a problem on another. My Laguna tire has just a slight crown and I have no tracking problems with any of my blades. Further I cannot remember the last time I adjusted the top wheel tilt for any blade changes.
If the upper end of the BS flexes when tensioned to any degree the tilt of the top wheel will change. The more ridged the saw the less likely that the top end will flex when tension is added. If your saw flexes, and you can not see that, you generally have more luck adjusting the tracking/top wheel tilt after tensioning the blade.
IMHO most band saws sold today compare to a bench top TS vs. a cabinet TS. Basically I feel to get a new BS that will not need constant adjustments you need to spend a little more than a good quality cabinet saw. Now if you can get your hands on an older Delta that would be another matter.
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:04:24 -0500, "Dick Snyder"

You're aware that the narrower blade requires far less tension than the half-incher, right? If you have one of the flip-it types of tensioners, that might not be immediately remembered. The tension scale is just a guide. Narrower blades usually take less tension than indicated. They're also much more finicky to adjust, and to keep in adjustment.
Once you get the blade running true, adjust up the thrust bearing and guides. Now add a bit of tension and retrue. Rinse & repeat.
Looking at one of their manuals, I see that they mention this phenomenon http://cdn3.grizzly.com/manuals/g0580_m.pdf "NOTICE: Changes in the blade tension may change the blade tracking."
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer
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wrote:

I do not have a flip it up tensioner but the screw it down until it is good enough. The rule of thumb I was working with was if you can tap on the blade it shouldn't deflect more than about an 1/8" of an inch
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:12:01 -0500, "Dick Snyder"

Check on the flutter method as described by Manual.
-- The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer
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I forgot to mention that when I first set up the saw I check that the wheels were co-planar and they were perfect.
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Had the same problem with a 1/4" blade, turned out to be the weld. Sent the blade back, they replaced it with a properly welded one no problems. The weld was only slightly off, couldn't see it untill I layed it on my TS, but it was enough. Joe

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