Plywood from China

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

That's a great straight line for something, but I'm not going there. :-)

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Next for automotive? Have you looked around in a parking lot in the past 10 years?

Our front lot at work was 100% US about 15 years ago, now it has a lonely Ford, a US built Korean car and three Japanese imports. Back lot is better, about 60 -40 in favor of US.

[spaco]

Ya know folks, if it's sold in the USA, then it's the guy who is selling it to you without telling you about its problems who is at fault. Up line from him is the American importer who also knows what he's pushing off on us. It won't get any better until we place the pressure where it can do some good. WE ALL have to return EVERY bad product and DEMAND satisfaction. The enemy is US! Don't be complacent!!!

I bought a couple dozen sheets of that kind of plywood from Menard's (up here in western Wisconsin) and about half of it delaminated. I used it up as best I could. I went back to the store a week or two later to buy something else and simply complained to a manager about it. I told him I'd never buy plywood there again. He said I should bring the receipt in and they'd do something for me. I did, and we negotiated a 50% return of the cost of the stuff. If enough people did that, they'd loose enough money that they'd HAVE to push for better stuff.

Pete Stanaitis

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sams> I'm never using it again.

[J. Clarke]

Whine whine whine whine whine.

Ed, you live in Connecticut. Connecticut has lost many manufacturing jobs, not because of competition from overseas, but because manufacturing in Connecticut is almost exclusively for the military--who are the major employers in manufacturing in Connecticut? Electric Boat, Pratt & Whitney, Sikorski, Colt, etc. Why did the jobs go away? Not because the Chinese started making nuclear submarines and jet engines and helicopters and M16s but because the Congress decided that we have enough submarines and jet airplanes and helicopters and M16s. Why aren't there any _consumer_ manufacturing jobs? Because the idiots in the statehouse have taxed them out of existence--no company hoping to compete in any consumer products area is going to set up in Connecticut because some outfit in a state that is friendly to business instead of sucking off the DOD teat will eat their lunch.

If you want manufacturing jobs in Connecticut then talk to your idiot legislators about cutting taxes on manufacturing way, way back, and provide some incentives for manufacturing to come to Connecticut. Not gonna happen--Connecticut is a suburb of New York City that doesn't see manufacturing as being of any real importance compared to stock trading and lawyering and insurance and whatnot.

If Japan and China fell off the face of the Earth there still wouldn't be any manufacturing jobs in Connecticut. If you want to work in manufacturing you picked the wrong state to live in.

The US exports more than 1.4 trillion dollars worth of goods every year. If there is no manufacturing in the US where do they come from?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

In addition to all the valid reasons above, add the cost of utilities. We have the highest electric rates, fuel oil cost, and natural gas. All are needed for manufacturing. Where I work we are still under contract at 15.1¢ for electric, but other parts of the country it is about a third of that.

[sweet sawdust]

Big problem is that joe average doesn't know he is getting ripped off, or is afraid to take stuff back and just accepts the crap he getting. A few years ago I went to a craft show. Another vendor was selling a toy just like one I make at 1/3 the price of mine. One customer complained to me about my price and showed me the one she had just pruchased from the other vendor. It was already broken, mine has a 30 day warrenty on it, I showed her the difference in quality. She bought mine but didn't take the broken one back afraid to offend the other vendor. The key here is education and guts to refuse to accept inferior products. Untill that happens we will have a problem of getting more and more of lesser and lesser quality goods

[Renata]

returned from a trip to Taiwan (was Taiwanese himself), and several other diners also hailed from thereabouts (though they hadn't recently visited, but do still have family there). BTW, all used the chopsticks provided by the (USA) restaurant where we dined.

Aside. Had the occasion to use my Porter Cable ROS (barrel grip one) last night. Sticker caught my eye - "Proudly Made in the USA".

Renata

[Renata]

The reason for worry about the place of manufacture is probably due to our experience with crap from said place of manufacture.

Personally, I was never one to blindly buy American, only America, no matter what. Whoever made the best for the money got my business. That meant no American cars, but some pretty good American tools (just

2 examples). Today, you can't find much not made in China, and I've become one who looks for the "Made In USA" (or Europe) sticker 'cause most of the junk from China is just that.

Another example/point. Now-days, even fine china (American and European) is made in China. As is the cheap stuff. So much for distinction. Not to mention a little extra lead (hey, if lead crystal is good, why not leaded dishes?). The question is, is China going to be the manufacturing center of the entire planet? If so, what are the rest of us going to do? Do they have the capacity to handle this task (entire planet)? Of course, if the rest is mostly unemployed (engineering and design staff goes where the manufacturing resides), or flipping burgers, maybe they won't have to worry so much about capacity...

Renata

[Frank Boettcher]

A great strategy but sometimes difficult to follow. My last experience was buying a strainer basket for a sink I was installing. In the local outlets all offerings were made in china. Took three to get one where the threads on the basket and tail piece nut actually matched and would hold.

Frank

[Frank Boettcher]

Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20 miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's? Nope, going to build the Prius.

Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's. Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants, offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands do that?

Frank

[evodawg]

What? If it don't function then its probably from China! Faulty or defective products coming from China can and is effecting my business. It just pisses me off that we take this shit. I called McFeelys and all their hardware and screws are made in China and Taiwan. Guess Jamestown maybe the last place to buy USA. I kinda wonder if Jamestown is getting stuff from China? Oh well I tried to find USA made.

[evodawg]

Lot of times it's just the aggravation of having to load up the crap and drive the distance and lug it into the store and wait in line and get the fifth degree from the moron behind the register. All because a product can't be made right or the idiots making it don't give a shit.

[Lew Hodgett]

That's why inspection before purchase is prudent.

Of course if this is a raw material purchase at Lowes or H/D, you already accet the fact you are buying garbage.

Lew

[Chris Friesen]

There are a couple exceptions to this. I know of at least one person who buys S2S secondary wood there because he can pick through the whole stack and only take *perfect* boards.

Chris

[Rod & Betty Jo]

I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs, benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.

Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod

[Bob Martin]

My IBM T41 ThinkPad was made in China - it's beautifully engineered. (Actually made by Lenovo but at that time was still allowed to put IBM badge on it.)

[Lew Hodgett]

There is no fastener industry left in the USA, it is all off shore.

As far as Jamestown is concerned, a major portion of their business is stainless where India is a major supplier.

Lew

[evodawg]

I wonder what else they put in it? Like some kind of spyware chip? I wonder where the Defense Dept. gets their puters? And why on earth are they still using WindBlows. What a bunch of Pinheads.

[Lew Hodgett]

days of 'mean' bosses in the car industry are pretty much over. They have proven what that union attitude gets them.... on BOTH sides of the line.

Find a copy of James F Lincoln's book, Incentive Management, and read it.

Yes, the Lincoln Electric, James F Lincoln.

Written in the 30's, some of the references are a little stale, but overall, still very much on the mark.

Firmly believed that any cost improvements should be shared equally,

1/3 each to customer, company, and worker which made Lincoln an interesting place to work.

Lew

[dayvo]

The auto makers have moved out of Detroit. Many have gone to the south due to cheap labor and no unions. Nearly every auto manufacturer is making cars in the US now and new factories have been springing up all over the US during the past 5 years. Leaving the decades old model of car manufacturing behind has worked well for Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and BMW. In the meantime, traditional US auto makers stuck to their old method of doing business and went downhill. The new factories have great benefits for their workers. They're very clean, new and well run. Building in the US cuts down on costs and allows manufacturers to study the local market. States who didn't work hard to woo auto makers lost out. So did unions who worked against the companies they depended on.

I think some Chinese products have their place but I am tired of not having a US alternative. Tools are probably the best example to people here. Somebody designed a lunch box planer years ago. Today I can buy that lunchbox planer in white, orange, yellow, gray, blue and probably some other colors I missed. They're all made from the same design, to approximately the same specs and probably even come from the same factories. Several US companies decide to buy X number of these lunch box planers in their color of choice and price them within several hundred dollars of each other. There is no real difference between them besides the color and company graphics. This is only one example of hundreds that I could probably find. What I really want is a choice between 5 or 6 different designs rather than 5 or 6 different colors. Then I can judge each one based on their design and performance parameters. Otherwise I have to just pick one up in whatever color I favor for no valid reason. Hmmm....should I buy the Ridid for $300 or the Steel City for $500?

The problem of not having good product choices is the result of greedy US companies who want to import widget to make as much $$$ as they can. None of them have any desire to build good or unique products. None of them have pride in supporting US workers. It's all about how much $$$ they can make for the board, CEO and other directors. Unfortunately that is exactly what our economy is designed for and it's what the US prides itself on. And not one of us can individually change it. I can't hurt Delta's business badly enough for them to design and build a planer in the US. Same for Rigid, DeWalt, Steel City or any other US owned/operated tool peddler.

What we really need is a US tool company that makes good quality tools in the US.