Plywood from China

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dpb wrote:

I meant in Connecticut. Sorry. Pretty much all of our large-scale non-military manufacturing is long gone. Most of the big stuff that's left is United Technologies family and still tied back to military stuff, like Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky, etc...
Zip file compression and ESPN are Connecticut grown, though!
FWIW, Cessna is building it's newest aircraft in China.
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B A R R Y wrote: ...

Only partially and that's as much strategic as otherwise to gain market access. Plus, they're in the process of a $$multi-million expansion of facilities in Wichita.
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dpb wrote:

And Independence (KS) and Columbus (GA).
Also, both the Wichita Airbus facility is expanding (independent of the tanker contract foo-fa; they do Axxx design work in Wichita) as well as Spirit (former Boeing commercial facility, now they do the former Boeing work plus additional for various others including new work for Airbus as well as 787 composites)...
Now is, somewhat amazingly, still pretty-much boom times in commercial aviation in both large airframes as well as small business and private markets despite fuel costs.
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dpb wrote:

Nope.
<http://www.aviation.com/flying/071128-ap-cessna-skycatcher-china.html
It's "Made in China".
I've been following the uproar since it started.
The expansion in Wichita is mostly Citation trainin facility, no? I know they're building the Mustang in Indepependence.
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"dpb" wrote:

Illinois, Iowa, and Kansas come to mind, but Connecticut?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Didn't see the CT connection :) granted; thought it was meant as US.
Many of the problems in local areas has to do w/ onerous State and Local laws and taxation policies combined w/ changing product demands and competition pressures that haven't been responded to in effective manner for one reason or another (or more generally, combination of all of the above and more)...
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<<We have lots of smaller specialty manufacters, like Hamer guitars (woodworking content), Kaman music (Ovation), Peter Paul (as in Mounds), Cannondale, Horton Brasses (woodworking content), etc...>>
Isn't Peter Paul shutting down their CT operation? But Stanley (woodworking content) still manufactures some stuff in New Britski, don't they?
Lee
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Lee Gordon wrote:

I googled this, and man, you're right!
Hershey moved Mounds and Almond Joy to VA. That sucks!
But Stanley (woodworking

I'm not so sure. I know a guy at Stanley that makes regular trips to Mexico City, though. I have to remember and ask.
We've still got Horton in Cromwell and the genuine Forstener bit in Berlin. ESPN should count as a decent sized factory. <G>
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wrote:

Yes Japanese branded but made in the USA. Brand new Toyota plant 20 miles from my house. 4000 jobs. Going to build trucks and SUV's? Nope, going to build the Prius.
Two hours south is a Nissan plant. Building Altima's. Thing is, they can come to this country, build what the market wants, offer it in high quality and be successful. Why can't the US brands do that?
Frank
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Frank Boettcher wrote:

I've read that while foreign U.S. based auto manufacturing wages are only a few dollars per hour cheaper that in fact with retirement, medical costs, benefits etc. that the difference is $70+ U.S. Vs $45 foreign owned. If indeed true such a margin creates very significant cost difference issues.
Incidenty I've heard on a web woodworking forum that Delta was moving their table saw manufacturing back to the U.S.....is it true? Rod
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"

I'm sure that's why they're here. Bring a plant into an area where the average fully benefit loaded manufacturing wage is about $20/hour, finding labor is not going to be a problem.

The Unisaw never left. Built in Jackson, TN, but with a higher foreign content in components. The sheet metal is fabricated in Jackson and the unit is assembled and painted there, components come from the far east, Mexico and Brazil.
Regarding any others, I don't know. Of the 6-700 fine, knowledgable, people who worked for Delta prior to the consolidation in 2000 there are approximately 10 left with the company. Mostly field sales. I have no contacts left to stay up with what is happening.
Frank
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Many of the management, design and sales people moved to an outfit called Steel City Toolworks. I very much like the tools they're currently offering, even though the units all seem to be offshore...but, then, very little isn't these days.
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On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:49:40 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Self

Yep, when I go to IWF, I go to the Steel City booth to visit with all my old friends.
Frank

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On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:05 -0700, "Rod & Betty Jo"

circuit around the drain.
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"Robatoy" wrote:

have proven what that union attitude gets them.... on BOTH sides of the line.
Find a copy of James F Lincoln's book, Incentive Management, and read it.
Yes, the Lincoln Electric, James F Lincoln.
Written in the 30's, some of the references are a little stale, but overall, still very much on the mark.
Firmly believed that any cost improvements should be shared equally, 1/3 each to customer, company, and worker which made Lincoln an interesting place to work.
Lew
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The auto makers have moved out of Detroit. Many have gone to the south due to cheap labor and no unions. Nearly every auto manufacturer is making cars in the US now and new factories have been springing up all over the US during the past 5 years. Leaving the decades old model of car manufacturing behind has worked well for Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and BMW. In the meantime, traditional US auto makers stuck to their old method of doing business and went downhill. The new factories have great benefits for their workers. They're very clean, new and well run. Building in the US cuts down on costs and allows manufacturers to study the local market. States who didn't work hard to woo auto makers lost out. So did unions who worked against the companies they depended on.
I think some Chinese products have their place but I am tired of not having a US alternative. Tools are probably the best example to people here. Somebody designed a lunch box planer years ago. Today I can buy that lunchbox planer in white, orange, yellow, gray, blue and probably some other colors I missed. They're all made from the same design, to approximately the same specs and probably even come from the same factories. Several US companies decide to buy X number of these lunch box planers in their color of choice and price them within several hundred dollars of each other. There is no real difference between them besides the color and company graphics. This is only one example of hundreds that I could probably find. What I really want is a choice between 5 or 6 different designs rather than 5 or 6 different colors. Then I can judge each one based on their design and performance parameters. Otherwise I have to just pick one up in whatever color I favor for no valid reason. Hmmm....should I buy the Ridid for $300 or the Steel City for $500?
The problem of not having good product choices is the result of greedy US companies who want to import <any> widget to make as much $$$ as they can. None of them have any desire to build good or unique products. None of them have pride in supporting US workers. It's all about how much $$$ they can make for the board, CEO and other directors. Unfortunately that is exactly what our economy is designed for and it's what the US prides itself on. And not one of us can individually change it. I can't hurt Delta's business badly enough for them to design and build a planer in the US. Same for Rigid, DeWalt, Steel City or any other US owned/operated tool peddler.
What we really need is a US tool company that makes good quality tools in the US.
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dayvo wrote: ...

That is, of course, the purpose of _any_ company that isn't a government or other monopolistic entity that doesn't require a profit to remain in business. And, of course, you left off a major portion of where those profits go, even for importers--employees of the distribution and retail chain, etc., and the stockholders which include a major fraction of the US population either directly or indirectly thru retirement plans.

The problem is, the US buying public has amply demonstrated they're more interested in price than any other single factor. The fraction that isn't is too small to be more than a niche market at best.
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I completely agree. The fish rots from the top down. Just look at the state of the economy. (Oooops, I'm Canadian and not allowed to observe a clusterfuck like the US economy, so I will ignore that this time. I mean... WHERE-O-WHERE is that really cool Delta plant in Guelph, Ontario now?)

Yup, seen that elsewhere as well. It is not exclusively 'the union's' fault. There are always examples which preclude generalisations like that. But zoom back and take a look at the big picture. Unions have not encouraged investment much, have they? As soon as the company starts to make money, it was GIMME GIMME. R & D spending has suffered lots too.
I have seen this first hand. As a small business owner, you want to grow, create work for people who want it, make a few bucks. My guys see that CNC as a threat instead of what it is, a way to be competitive and be more secure in this environment. It helps secure their jobs, not threaten it. (Besides, it doesn't show up hung-over, goodie for me, right? I should get something for putting my nuts on the chopping block, wot?)
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Robatoy wrote:

If you haven't seen WALL-E yet, I highly recommend it.
"Buy n' Large", indeed!
Jerry
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Ken wrote:

Look again. Most of the "Japanese" cars sold in America are built in America, and largely with American parts. I wrote a report on this about ten years ago, but I can't find what I did with it.
I had an altercation with a guy about driving an "American" truck. He was in a Ford Ranger, and I was in a Nissan Hard Body. He didn't believe me when I pointed out that his truck was made in Mexico and mine was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky. I told him to go look up his VIN and see for himself.
The latest players in the US car market are the Koreans, with Hyundai and Kia. Not too long ago Hyundai announced that they were going to open a US plant and start building cars here.
In fact, about the only car manufacturers that are taking their plants out of the US are The Big Three, who are largely moving to Canada and Mexico. Even so, the way the rules are written, because they're US based corporations this is still considered "domestic" production.
So before you look at the manufacturer's badge and make an assumption you should find out where the vehicle was actually built.
AP
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