Picture Framing

I am framing a bunch of different sized pictures, matted, glasses, and stained glass.
The problem is this, I can mill the wood using standard square or other molding to get everthing to the desired sizes. I have even mitered the corners to a perfect 45 angle, everything assembled but...
As to put the frame together I cannot get a system that is reliable. I have tried epoxy, small nails & screws, even tight bond but the frame is still not strong enough. I have 45 clamps to hold the rig together but am experiencing problems. looked into some 45 mounting brackets but it will look not so good. The guys at work suggest using a air nailer to put in some small braids and that sounds okay but thought I would ask the network gods for any ideas.
I know the factory frames from pottery barny are made this way, that is the point!, I want this to be better than that. Any ideas would be great, Tks, trying to fish in new orleans
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Brads aren't a bad idea.
Do you have enough room to cut a recess for a biscuit, or half a one? I use that a lot to make 45 degree miters.
BTW it is a weak joint, gluing end grain to end grain.
Old Guy

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It is very common for frames to have small brads or pins in the corners to reinforce the corners. The type of wood you are using will also affect the strength of the joints. More stable and dense woods work better than woods like cedar or pine. If the frames are flat backed and wide enough consider using pocket hole screws also, these work like a charm.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

High initial-tack glue and L-shaped magic picture framing nails like Framemaster put in perpendicular from the back. These are fine for small frames, anything bigger you can put a biscuit in. I never brad from the sides.
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On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:50:36 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

There are purpose-made nails for picture framing. They are called "v-nails" and if you google that term (with the hyphen) you'll find a number of suppliers both for the nails and for various tools to insert them.
Note that they do not seem to be happy with the concrete-with-leaves tropicals--I tried v-nailing some purpleheart and the nail was squashed flat without making much of a mark on the wood, but that might be my technique. Oak and maple they don't seem to have any trouble with.
The most widely marketed tool for the purpose is from Logan Industries (I don't know if it's the best, but it's the one you're most likely to find), the cheapest is the Pushmaster (Woodcraft has both), one can if one is careful use a pair of long nosed pliers and a hammer.
Try polyurethane glue--I read a while back that it was very good for endgrain, tried it, and it actually does seem to hold reasonably well, at least I haven't had anything fall apart on me yet. Finish first, mask, then strip the masking while the foam-out is still soft, and it's not all that much hassle either.
Also, if you don't have a framing clamp, you might want to consider getting one--<http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/clamps_vises/adjustable/clampmate.htm?L+coastest+jbcx4123ff45e645+1165618555 works a treat. Wax the aluminum parts before you use it--otherwise you're going to have to chisel glue off it. Actually puts pressure on the joints rather than just holding them at a right angle.
Beyond that there are the old standbys such as lap miters, splined miters, and the like.
You might want to take a look at <http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Portable+Power+Tools&pid917550000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Jointers+%26+Planers&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes>. Made by Ryobi but apparently no longer available except through Sears, it uses special biscuits that are smaller than the regular kind--its largest is about the size of a standard FF biscuit and the smallest is a little over a half an inch long. I've not used one of these but the idea of it is intriguing and if I did enough small work I'd certainly give it a try. One of the reviewers of the Ryobi version (RK50) on Amazon says he's been using it for frames for years.

--
--John
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wife got me to make picture frames for her recently
First use stops when your cutting. Make sure the opposite sides are absolutely the same length otherwise the angle will seem off. I found that my miter saw is powerful enough to pull or push the wood just a bit when cutting that I could not hold it by hand. I tried using quick clamps but the saw would even pull the wood with them. I ended up buying a clamp made for my Dewalt saw to hold the wood.
Second use miter clips to test fit the frame. I found some inexpensive ones at a hardware store that work well enough or you can buy the more expensive ones that places like woodcraft sell.
I use Titbond for my joints and the spring clips to hold everything together. The clips have enough hold for glue up but I can still move the joints around to line up a flush fit. If the frame is going to have a natural finish I wipe the surface with a wet cloth to remove any glue that comes to the surface. I also use a band clamps if I'm doing more than one frame at a time
Then I use V-nails to hold everything together after the glue has dried. Since September I've made a couple dozen frames this way. The V-nails are handy.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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I too use standard square sizes of moldings to make picture frames. I cut the miters on the square stock to size, and then do the milling.
I work mostly as 1 X 2", 1 X 4" inch material.
I fasten the corners with biscuits. I cut the slots using a slot cutting bit on a router table. I find I can get better accuracy and faster using the table than with a biscuit joiner.
I use the Veritas Mini Biscuits from Lee Valley Tools Ltd. These are slightly shorter than the standard biscuits so there is sufficient space to cut the slot in the 2" stock.
They can be found at the following URL
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p2730&cat=1,250,43217,43231
I don't know your experience, but in addition to perfect miters the opposite sides must be exactly the same length for good picture frames.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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with square stock I use double sided tape to hold the two pieces together then cut my miter on opposite sides in on pass. This assures that both pieces are the same length.
keith_nuttle wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

One fairly simple possibility comes to mind. Clamp each corner together and, using a Forstner bit, drill a shallow (1/8" or so) recess centered across the joint on the back side. Cut a matching or contrasting disk of the same size and glue into the recess with the grain running across the joint.
-- It's turtles, all the way down
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If you do a lot of framing, you might consider getting an underpinner. It is a pneumatic or foot operated device that drives V nails in to the miter. They are used buy the picture framing industry. You can get a foot operated model for around $500. I think there is a hand operated one for much less. Logan might be the company who sells it. -S
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Used to do picture framing professionally, though on a smaller scale. Underpinners are expensive. I used a small framing vice ( 90 degrees ), glue and small brads in from the sides. The glue was a dark brown stuff, common in the framing industry. But have since forgotten the name. I used wax pencils to touch up, and fill nail holes. They come in a number of colors.
I must have a dozen frames, from smaller to large at home that have no strength issues.
I used a Makita chop saw at the time, carbide blade, and the angle had to be a little better than perfect to get a good looking joint. As I remember, go to the 45 degree setting, and then adjust about 1/4 degree from the mark to get a good cut. A good cut made the difference, and then the framing vice held it so it was nailed tight. After assembly, it was set aside overnight for the glue to set.
Hope this helps a little.
Rich.....
SimonLW wrote:

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snip
Putting a spline in the joint adds strength as well as a unique look http://sawdustmaking.com/About%20Joints/about_joints.htm#Spline%20joint
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How about cutting lap joints on the ends of each corner piece to give you a lot more surface area for the glue to stick to. Then you can reinforce the corner with a couple of brad nails coming in from the back.
That would seem to be a nice and sturdy connection to keep the ends from breaking apart, plus, it has the advantange of being nearly invisible from the front.

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