OT Mean while...

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On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:29:36 -0600, HeyBub wrote:

OK, you've proven that one group of scientists at one university, plus another scientist who used to work at that same university, have been unethical. That surprises you? In any large group of people, there's always a few as******s. But that's no reason to assume that the entire group is the same. That's like assuming, because a few fanatic Christians have bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors, that all Christians are nurderers and bombers.
And I don't think those East Anglians are the influential "handful of people" that Dave Balderstone alluded to and that I questioned.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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The CRU at East Anglia is one of the key research units promoting the concept of AGW. I indeed consider them the key players in this.
Look at the links between the CRU and the IPCC.
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Heh!
The folks at East Anglia are the godhead of climate research. NASA and NOAA are tied for a distant second.
Stand by! One moment please! Attention viewers and all the ships at sea: This just in (Dec 14th):
"Odd things are going on at the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia. Widely available data, existing in the public view for years, is now disappearing from public view."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/14/whats-going-on-cru-takes-down-briffa-tree-ring-data-and-more /
And these are not "one group of scientists..." These are (ALL OF) the leaders of the climate change community (which isn't that large to begin with - there are only about ten of them). Admittedly 2,500 (or 10,000, I forget how many) scientists have boarded the Anthropogenic Global Warming bandwagon but, to carry your Christian metaphor forward, look how many true believers the twelve (or eleven) apostles (plus Saul of Kenya) managed to excite.
These investigators have ignored one of the cardinal rules of science: "When you've reached the bottom of the hole, quit digging" and you may have overlooked the first principle of public acceptance: "Fish rots from the head down."
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HeyBub wrote:

Michael Mann, Phil Jones, Hanson at NASA, Keith Briffa, and a few others at East Anglia, NASA, and NOAA.
Willing complicity by the media: Seth Borenstein of AP: <http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/12/aps-seth-borenstein-is-just-too-damn - cozy-with-the-people-he-covers-time-for-ap-to-do-somethig-about-it/>

In the words of Thomas Dolby, "Consensus!"
By the way, not just New Zealand, Australia as well: <http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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wrote:

Just corrupting an old 1980's hit by Thomas Dolby, "Blinded by Science". Primary refrain throughout the song is the single word, "SCIENCE!". Replacing that with the refrain, "CONSENSUS!" seems apropos.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
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On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:57:04 -0700, the infamous Mark & Juanita

Whew, what a stretch! But OK. I grok it in its entirety now. That was a fun and catchy song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o
Note the Warrington hammah he used. This is On Topic at last!
There's a link there to The Fixx "One Thing Leads To Another" And how about Oingo Boingo's "It's A Dead Man's Party"? Most Excellent, Dude!
-- Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm). -----------
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which is not too far removed from Zombie Jamboree and has to be within a few thousand degrees of All Around My Hat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zzwbYyvWiU


Amen
nb
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Of course not and they won't be asked to. The claim is these are "developing countries" and should'nt be burdaned with such a thing. The main target is the US as we are the biggest poluters. Maybe so as compared to, say, Germany. A quick look at any map and it should be obvious to any intelligent person why that is.
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The Chinese passed us a couple years back. Like we were standing still. Indians may be gaining.
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LDosser wrote:

Passed us in what way? Just the INCREASE in our GDP for the past five years is greater than the ENTIRE GDP of China.
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Pollution. They are now Number One
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The images here are horrific:
<http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china />
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Stomach turning!! A vision of Hell. Dickens never saw anything this bad.
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The world of Dickens only had "normal" poisons available. We have many more.
If only the UN control freaks were actually interested in cleaning up the poisonous shit being poured onto the planet, mostly in the so-called "developing world" rather than simply stealing wealth from the people (read: taxpayers in "western" countries) who actually CREATE the wealth... In the guise of "Carbon".
But the issue isn't about a healthy planet. It's about a wealthy uberclass that gets to dictate how well we will live.
THAT'S what the HopenChangen conference was all about (oops, I'm Canadian, I should have said "Aboot").
And as a Canadian, I'm damned proud that the greentards castigated my country at that farce of a UN event. The Canadian government has the balls to say "We're not going to destroy our economy to please the likes of Chavez and Mugabe."
Sweet.
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Unfortunately we sent an empty Suit.
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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:13:18 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"

From what I remember in high school, those pics could have been from the USA 40 years ago. We've come a long way, baby.

I'll have to call "Bullshit" on that one, Lobby. Dickens _lived_ it.
London's back yards were open pools of shit where everyone tossed their chamber pot sewage every morning. It finally seeped down and contaminated all their wells. Why do you suppose there were all those outbreaks of cholera and everyone could drink only beer or ale?
http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/perspect/london.htm (I can't believe I'm quoting these libtards.)
http://ourwardfamily.com/victorian_london.htm "The Victorian city of London was a city of startling contrasts. New building and affluent development went hand in hand with horribly overcrowded slums where people lived in the worst conditions imaginable. The population surged during the 19th century, from about 1 million in 1800 to over 6 million a century later. This growth far exceeded London's ability to look after the basic needs of its citizens.
A combination of coal-fired stoves and poor sanitation made the air heavy and foul-smelling. Immense amounts of raw sewage was dumped straight into the Thames River. Even royals were not immune from the stench of London - when Queen Victoria occupied Buckingham Palace her apartments were ventilated through the common sewers, a fact that was not disclosed until some 40 years later.
Upon this scene entered an unlikely hero, an engineer named Joseph Bazalgette. Bazalgette was responsible for the building of over 2100 km of tunnels and pipes to divert sewage outside the city. This made a drastic impact on the death rate, and outbreaks of cholera dropped dramatically after Bazlgette's work was finished. For an encore, Bazalgette was also responsible for the design of the Embankment, and the Battersea, Hammersmith, and Albert Bridges."
http://ourwardfamily.com/children_of_the_1800%27s.htm#Death%20and%20disease "Victorian children were very close to death and suffering. In the 1830s almost half the funerals in London were for children under ten years old. Many people died from infections and diseases that we would rarely die of today, such as measles and scarlet fever. Children often experienced the death of a parent, brother or sister. If one of their parents died, wealthy children were expected to go into mourning and wear black clothing for up to a year. They may also have worn mourning jewellery such as a bracelet of plaited hair removed from the head of a dead relative.
Poor children were more likely to suffer from death and disease. Many lived in dirty, crowded conditions and shared living accommodation with other families. They often lived in homes without heat where the only furniture was a heap of rags and straw. The lack of nutritious food, toilet facilities and the poor quality of drinking water resulted in serious cases of diarrhea, typhoid and other infections. Raw sewage in the drinking water and the stench of the River Thames also made people feel almost constantly sick. Many people could not afford to visit a doctor or pay for medicines. Although the Great Ormond Street Hospital for sick children was founded in 1852, most sick children continued to be cared for at home in dirty and crowded conditions. Babies were especially likely to become ill and up to half of all poor children born in London died in their first year."
Do some more research, Lobby. It will make you very happy, indeed, to live in this era vs. the grueling Victorian one. No more gruel today, either!
-- This episode raises disturbing questions about scientific standards, at least in highly political areas such as global warming. Still, it's remarkable to see how quickly corrective information can now spread. After years of ignored freedom-of-information requests and stonewalling, all it took was disclosure to change the debate. Even the most influential scientists must prove their case in the court of public opiniona court that, thanks to the Web, is one where eventually all views get a hearing. --Gordon Crovitz, WSJ 12/9/09
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Ah, the Good Old Days.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Nay, kind sir, wrong species!
Be reminded that the major mode of transportation in London in those day was equine, not bovine. And, if you've ever had to clean out a horse stall twice in 12 hours ... well, you do the math.
Judging from the comments herein it is obvious that "horse shit" operates under the Theory of Conservation of Energy, the amount remains constant, albeit in a different form. ;)
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On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:39:14 -0600, the infamous Swingman

Then we can agree, Sir Swingy, that London was but a shitty place to live in times of Vic.
-------------------------------------------- -- I'm in touch with my Inner Curmudgeon. -- ===========================================
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scrawled the following:

Forgot to mention we Still had horseshit in the streets of Glasgow in the 1940-1950. Milk and coal were still delivered by horse cart and the 'rag and bone man' would come round with a horse cart now and then. Plus police patrols on horse back.
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