OT-Carter Products celebrates 75 years serving the woodworking industry

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Sorry about the off topic post, but we here at Carter Products are happy to announce we just turned 75! and we wanted you to share in the celebration.
From the first band saw wheel with replaceable tires in 1929 to our latest innovations for both the hobbyist and industrial woodworker in 2004, Carter Products has brought new ideas to life for 75 years.
As a thank you for 75 years of support Carter is pleased to offer rec.woodworking usenet participants a special offer. For details on this offer visit the following address: http://www.carterproducts.com/75th
For industrial users we are also now having a sale on all our lasers. For more information on our laser sale or any of our products please contact Carter Products at snipped-for-privacy@carterproducts.com or call our toll free number 888-622-7837. Sale details and product info can be found at http://www.carterproducts.com/halfoff.asp
All our products can be viewed online and many classic products purchased online at our newly updated web site. http://www.carterproducts.com
Thanks to all the woodworkers who have relied on Carter to provide high quality upgrades and innovative new products for large and small shops around the world. We look forward to serving you for at least another 75 years.
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Hm. You know, it's one thing when a regular participant and contributor here also sells stuff, it's an entirely different thing when someone who doesn't, comes in with an ad. Maybe I've missed it, but it looks to me like you're just using a forum you don't contribute to for free advertising, is that the case here?
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Notice the"half-off" URL redirects to a 15% off page? Gotta love 'em. Wait, I don't. Tom Work at your leisure!
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Dave,
I agree that a vendor that doesn't contribute but wants our business is a bit on the sly side but... Let's invite him to join in and provide some guidance / advice on his products. We get some tips/hints and he gets a world-wide audience. His ad was well done I might ad.
Bob S.
wrote:

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Perhaps, but he's going about it backwards if he wants me to consider buying anything from him. In one of the VW auto groups, there's a guy there (John) who is _very_ helpful and an active participant. Picture Charlie Self, but with VW Beetle stuff. Months into reading the group, I realized that he was also the person selling restoration products, repair parts, and all that, that people were refering to by vendor name (rather than his name, y'see, so it wasn't obvious).
To contrast, if it's someone who hasn't participated (and/or contributed) in a group and they wander in with their commercial, I see it as about the same as someone crashing a party, breaking into conversations, and trying to sell everyone at the party something.
It was one of the milder spam's that I've seen, but it's still a pork product in a can with that disgusting jelly stuff on it.
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Hopefully (but I doubt it) the gentleman will read your posts and take it to heart.
Bob S.
wrote:

a
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Please excuse the extremely long post but I felt a response was necessary.
I do take things like this to heart and am happy to contribute where I can. However I have the unenviable position of being caught between two ideals. The first being that Im the newly appointed Director of Media Services for the Carter Products Company, and thus its my job to get the word out anyway I can about our products. The other being that Im sure you would rather get product advice from someone who has used a product, not someone who also sells it. Ive been lurking around rec.woodworking for a while now, and even posted a few times with questions Ive had. Ive been very tempted on more then a few occasions to post my opinions when questions about bandsaw guides, tires, tension springs, etc. come up. However in fear of being flamed because of my connection to Carter Products I have not posted. I know for myself I would much rather get advice from someone who has used a product but is in no way connected to the company that sells the product. Id be more then happy to extol what in my opinion are the virtues of the full roller bearing guide, the need to de-tension after every bandsaw use thus our Quick Release, but Id much prefer someone who owns our product or another product pass this info on whether it be for our against our products. If you can think of a way for me to talk about our products or give advice without getting flamed for my bias towards them that would be great, but I cannot. So as you see either way Im doomed. Flamed if I do post, Flamed, as in this case, if I dont.
Likewise I really dont consider myself to be an expert on woodworking. Im an amateur woodworker at best, who has been learning ever since my grandfather first taught me how to use his bandsaw at the age of 12. Ive attended classes on woodworking, most recently at the Marc Adams School of Woodworking, and while I enjoy what I can do in woodworking, I dont consider myself an expert at it. Im not an engineer here, nor do I develop any of the products, my job is to understand the basics of them and create marketing and instructional materials for them. Ive really spent the last years of my life learning and perfecting my current occupation (video, web design, marketing and multimedia) thus woodworking is more of a weekend hobby then anything else to me. As such I dont feel really qualified to give that much info on a subject I am still learning about. If questions arise about our products specifically relating to some aspect like adjusting, mounting, etc. then Id be all over it, but typically questions are asking how people like the product (mostly guides) or if they recommend it, and thats not really fair for me to comment because of my affiliation with the company that sells the product. Since I only woodwork as a hobby I really am not that knowledgeable about tons of equipment other than what I use, which as you might expect is equipped with everything that Carter sells. I admit I dont monitor rec.woodworking daily so Im sure there have been some questions that I could add my two cents to that Ive missed, but I cant devote all my time to the internet as my job requires I spend time elsewhere and being a new father my family requires what little time I have left over.
The purpose of the original message, which I might add was only posted to rec.woodworking, was to pass on the news of Carters 75th anniversary and give the rec.woodworking users the opportunity to gain a discount, not typically extended to the end user (customer), on our products if they were interested. Sure its secondary purpose was also as an ad, sure I wanted it to generate further interest, exposure and hopefully sales of our products, but no harm was intended with the posting. Perhaps it should have read FS instead of OT but I did my best to label it as off topic, thus in hopes to avoid the flames that followed. As such I wish to convey my apologies for its intrusion into rec.woodworking. As time permits I will try to participate where appropriate. If anyone has specific questions regarding our products please direct them to our snipped-for-privacy@carterproducts.com address and we will be happy to answer them or to myself at snipped-for-privacy@carterproducts.com Likewise post them here and other possibly more experienced and unbiased users might be able to answer them, if not Ill do my best to answer them in a timely manner. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this response but I felt it was necessary to do so. Again Im sorry for any disruption my posting may have made.
Lee Director of Media Services Carter Products Company
Bob wrote:

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Carter wrote:

Lee, I personally have no problem with your original post, in fact I thought it rather well done. wRECkers can be a cantankerous bunch of old farts and fartettes, but with a few exceptions, we are fair and will slather friend and foe alike with kudos and derision. Stick around. If you see a question that one of your products can solve, have at it. If it's great, you will hear about it. If it sucks, well ...
That said, if you need beta testing of your products, I just happen to have this Delta 14"... ;-)
    mahalo,     jo4hn
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...

...
Yeah, I agree exactly. Plenty of others have advertised their services here. I don't see any problem with it as long as its related to woodworking and it isn't repetitive.
Besides, this OT post is no worse than a dozen other OT threads that are going on here (arguably better than most of them).
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This is the point of contention. USENET is a discussion area for subjects of the particujlar newsgroup. It is not meant to be commercial. A simple announcement may be alllowed, but you can split har between a simple annoucement and a full blown advertisement at times. Personally, I did not see any problem with shat you did as a one time thing as at least you were offering a discount.

As long as you are giving honest advice, not just try to sell products I don't see that this is a problem. If you sig line shows your affiliation with Carter, we can make out own judgement. We all know of Setve Knight and Mike at American Sycamore and others and when they say this or that works best for them, we know they are giving honest opinion, not trying to sell their product. They have experience with many products and share their thoughts freely. No reason you should not. Not much different that when a machinist, blacksmith, electrician pop in to answer questions in their area of expertise.

I'd be interested in not just your opinion, but any real facts on the subject. I de-tension every day and believe it to be beneficail. Others say it makes no difference. I'm sure your quick release works wele, but I use a cheaper product. Best way to handle that is to answer a question about it rather than post a 20 page white paper on the subject that reeks of advertising. .

Thee is a difference bwtween aswering a question and stating if it comes from your perspective as a Carter employee and just rambling on about somethiing with the main intention of telling us about Carter product. Robin Lee does that often. He is held in high regard, we know his company, we know his products, but he answers questions of general interest when he can. He also answer questions directed to Lee Valley products when appropriate. He NEVER steps in and says don't buy brand X, but my stuff instead. Google up his posts for some guidance. Ed
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Good idea. Jim Ray of McFeely's also lurks and contributes when he can - you might read a few of his, as well, if you aren't comfortable.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
  Click to see the full signature.
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Dear Lee:
I welcome your post and most woodworkers will welcome your post. No need to apologize...no fowl here. I enjoyed your site and appreciated the information. I have done business with Carter since my days with The Edward B. Mueller Co out of Cinncinati, OH. I invite you to take a look at my website as well.
www.americansycamoreretreat.com
thanks, Mike from American Sycamore
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Tue, Jun 15, 2004, 6:56pm (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@ccrtc.com (MikeatAmericanSycamore) says: <snip> I invite you to take a look at my website as well. www.americansycamoreretreat.com
Aaaarrrrgggghhh. Didn't intentionally leave you out of my response Mike. But, it's late and all I could think of was Robin's name. I know you and a number of others contribute to the group too. I don't know of anyone who has a problem with any of you. Hmm, that didn't come out exactly like I meant it. Anyway, everybody knows you guys are associated with businesses, and I don't know of anybody that has a problem with it. Still lame, but better. I think I need a cup of coffee.
JOAT Use your brain - it's the small things that count. - Bazooka Joe
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote in message

Hey there Joat:
Thank-you for the kind words. I do try to be of help and use my years of selling and teaching woodworking, and yes I do need to promote my business when I can and when approviate to do so. There are so many nice people here that do offer words of encouragement and they do try to help everyone. Thanks, Mike
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Tue, Jun 15, 2004, 2:33pm snipped-for-privacy@carterproducts.com (Carter) posts: <snip> I've been very tempted on more then a few occasions to post my opinions when questions about bandsaw guides, tires, tension springs, etc. come up. <snip> If you can think of a way for me to talk about our products or give advice without getting flamed for my bias towards them that would be great, but I cannot. <snip>
The way Robin does it, works for me. Check out his style.
So as you see either way I'm doomed. Flamed if I do post, Flamed, as in this case, if I don't. <snip>
Nah, you don't need to worry about getting flamed for that. Somebody'll just pick something else to flame you about. LOL
<snip> As such I don't feel really qualified to give that much info on a subject I am still learning about. <snip>
That doesn't stop certain people.
If questions arise about our products specifically relating to some aspect like adjusting, mounting, etc. then I'd be all over it, but typically questions are asking how people like the product (mostly guides) or if they recommend it, and that's not really fair for me to comment because of my affiliation with the company that sells the product. Since I only woodwork as a hobby I really am not that knowledgeable about tons of equipment other than what I use, which as you might expect is equipped with everything that Carter sells. <snip>
I personally see no problem with you posting, should be a good thing, just don't "push" the stuff. Wouldn't need to be here every day. I'd say check out Robin's style, try to do half as well. A link, and a line or three in a sig block. I'd have no prob with that.
JOAT Use your brain - it's the small things that count. - Bazooka Joe
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Lee,
Please do stick around and continue to contribute whenever you feel it appropriate. We all benefit from having reps of manufacturers and retailers participate, and from a manufacturer's perspective it's hard to imagine a better source of information from its consumers.
I personally don't even feel that it's inappropriate for you to offer opinions and/or facts which you feel make your company's products superior. As long as you identify your connection to the company so that everyone understands where/who it is coming from, I see no problem...
Not everyone will agree (that NEVER happens here), but that is just a part of Usenet. I'm interested in Carter Products products (!) and would welcome your input and participation.
Brad

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Your thrust brings to mind the Packard Motorcar slogan "Ask the man that owns one".
On 17 Jun 2004 08:22:51 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@volcanomail.com (brad) wrote:

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" snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net" said in response to my post which encouraged the OP to keep posting:
(brad) wrote:

To which I respond: Sorry, I've never purchased any Carter Products. Certainly would have disclosed that if I had.
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Yup, participation is the way to go.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

Much like our own St. Robin of Lee? Or once upon a time Bennet of TS Aligner fame. Though with the former I've nary seen a commercial endorsement and the man demonstrates probably the best bidness model I've ever seen whereas the latter usually only spoke to alignment issues (his strong suit) but is remembered for the long (OK, painful to those who watched) flame wars with the likes of Puzzle Boy.

You know though, I've seen many a "rep" type unbatten the hatches and stick out their heads on forums like this but few (OK, nearly none) get it right. The truth be known I for one wouldn't mind having the place swarming with them as long as they'd maybe minor in the Rob Lee School Of How To Do It Right.
Hey! A guy can dream the improbable, can't he?

And what's up with that iridescent color (colour David) on that stuff anyway?
UA100
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