O/T: The Bail Out

[NuWave Dave]

How in hell could anyone be worse than the dipshit we've had in the White House for the last eight years?

Dave in Houston

[Mark & Juanita]

You're kidding, right?

During the last 8 years, we've had record low unemployment averaging 5.2%, it was near 6.5% during Carter's years.

During the last 8 years, inflation has hovered around 3%, during Carter's term it was 6.5% to 13.5%. 2008 has increased to 4.3% due to energy changes, but still below the lowest of Carter's best years.

During the last 8 years, interest rates have ranged from 5 to 7%; during the Carter years, interest rates were double-digit.

Aside from locations undergoing natural disasters, nobody has stood in gas lines to fill up. Gas lines were first encountered during Carter's term.

In the past 8 years, Bush has never blamed the American people for the country's problems. In his infamous "malaise" speech, Carter effectively did.

During Carter's administration, due to the lack of attention paid to the military, it was unable to rescue 50 hostages from a single city in a third world country, nor were we capable of responding to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan by doing anything other than boycotting the Moscow Olympics. During the past 8 years, a terror-supporting radical theocratic regime in Afghanistan was brought down and a terror-supporting thug in the Middle East was brought down and his country is now establishing a democracy.

Carter thought he could solve problems by talking also -- that's why Iran held those hostages so long. "As a fellow person of faith, I ask you to free those being held by your people" (or words to that effect) -- Jimmy Carter to the Ayatollah Khomeni. "We have his people and there's not a damn thing he can do about it" -- Ayatollah Khomeni

[Tim Daneliuk]

Stick around and watch. If Comrade Obama (PBUH) is elected, you're going to be begging for W to come back...

[todd]

I imagine a similar sentiment being uttered about this time in 1976. Just wait. It can always be worse. But I can already hear it. Anything good that happens will be because of Obama, and anything bad will have been Bush's fault.

todd

[Charlie Self]

'S funny. For 7-1/2 years, the neocons have been blaming it all on Clinton.

[Han]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in news:2d68$48dedcc4$62107b6e$ [e-mail]:

To avoid misunderstandings, I believe I know the pains and rewards of hard work. I fully believe everyone should work to the very best of their abilities, and I have done so, IMHO. I also believe that many have not done so. On the other hand I have seen many try and be frustrated by (fill in your choice - management indifference/prejudice/jealousy, unlucky choices of their own {for which adversity is advised, but trashing?}. So I feel that it is my obligation to help people that are worthy of my help, and where I can indeed help.

[hex]

Unemployment numbers are flaky at best. A job is not necessarily a job that really benefits the fundamental economy. Yes, pretty much any job is better than no job. But, flippin' burgurs and makin' latte provides limited benefit.

I don't think we know what the effective interest and inflation rates will be for the Bush years for a decade or more -- an administration sets the policies and conditions that will determined the first or second derivatives of each of those . You may have been seeing 5% inflation, but if the decisions that have been made to hold 5% force

20% in 5 years, then averaging over a more suitable period gives a better big picture estimate for the prospects of your wealth. It's tough to measure either inflation or interest well without enough time. The "what are today's numbers" game for Wall St. is just another example of the stupidity. None of this is to be a Carter apologist -- he screwed up in many ways. But it's folly to blame everything that happens in a president's tenure solely on that president unless there are discrete poor decisions. Bush inherited some of Slick Willie's problems -- history will, I believe, crucify him for his discrete decisions and for not trying to correct Clnton's errors (i.e. growing China too fast).

hex

-30-

[Han]

hex wrote in news:2df403e7-aae3-447a- [e-mail]:

Another measure of inflation would be what the value is of the dollar versus other currencies. If (for example) the US$/? ratio changes from

0.85 to 1.5, there is great devaluation of the dollar. That makes US goods much cheaper in Europe, which artificially reduces unemployment here, for the moment, and imported goods (oil?) much more expensive for the US (despite the oil being pegged to the dollar, the oil producers still want to get their European luxury goods ). So in the absence of really good inflation control (which will hurt the common man more than the rich), we are in for bad times, thanks to the Bush years. Whatever you might say of Clinton, that regime ended with a suplus on the balance sheet. Bush' tax cuts and war (and NOT entitlements) have raised the deficit to unprecedented heights, and someone will have to pay off those debts, someone in the future.

[Jim Behning]

Inflation rate is yet another scam. I hear but have not researched that they way that it is measured is changed all the time just to reduce the amount of SS benefits. I do not feel that I am losing 5% purchasing power each year. It feels like a lot more. Electricity has gone up a bit. I have bought fuel for less than a dollar a gallon in the past 4-5 years. Milk, bread, potato chips, hay, grain, dog food has gone up by more than 5%. I do not think that a phony inflation rate is a fair measure of any Congress' or president's economic success. Right now I cannot easily find a good article on the CPI or what is in the market basket.

I would like a nati>NuWave Dave wrote:

[Robatoy]

The lateral shift of 500,000 jobs from $ 25.00 per hour to the jobs that pay $ 6.00 per hour doesn't affect he unemployment numbers, now does it?

[Swingman]

"hex" wrote

And, IIRC, those statistics for jobs flipping burgers are now included as jobs in "manufacturing" ... a despicable subterfuge, almost as bad as removing the cost of food and fuel from the "inflation index".

Another reason why there should not be an incumbent left standing in Congress after November.

[Robatoy]

[Mike Marlow]

To be fair, I think I'm guilty of a bad choice of words. I was trying to get across the point that many of us had to work our way through our education because we didn't have the benefit of a paid way, and that this didn't hurt our chances to succeed in any way. It isn't whether one benefits from the wealth of a family that determines one's success, it's the drive of the individual.

[Upscale]

Nothing new about that. A long time ago, I realized the more successful managers were the ones that could best skew the statistics. And so it goes all the way up to the top.

[Han]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in news:14ec2$48e03bee$62107b6e$ [e-mail]:

Fair enough. In my background, it was deemed that the parents should pay for their kids' education if they can, and that grants, loans, and work should pay when the parents could not. I have perpetuated that for my kids. I really hate to owe interest, so I would rather wait, save and pay than go into hock at the rates that (whoever) charges. That being said, I will use credit for a big purchase like a house (where the interest is relatively low, and deductible), but even for a car, I'd rather pay from savings (or a home equity loan) then owe big interest payments.

[Jimbo]

(snip to)

What private sector? The one that has been totally discredited for bring the US and maybe even the world economy to it's very knees. This is the Regan legacy come home to roost.

[Jimbo]

Comparing Obama to Carter doesn't really make a lot sense to me. Maybe its an age thing :)

Anyway, you're comparing apples and oranges: Obama will be a beacon for democracy (small d - not the party) in the US and the world. His acceptance will be widespread and will include the disenfranchised. He will try to lower the ocean level by joining with the rest of the developed world and trying to do something positive about climate change. This should actually bring the US to a leadership position in R&D, manufacture and use of alternative energy sources. He will heal the sick by improving medicare. You have so much to look forward to over the next eight years. It's going to be great.

[Tim Daneliuk]

You are deeply confused. The market and the economy are different entities and the economy is fundamentally sound. It is the market that needs correcting, and so it is. The market will now do - in one very painful and short period - what should have been going on incrementally over the years: correct inefficiencies and bad choices out of existence. Unless, of course, the various communists in government have their way to try and defy Reality by passing more laws and giving away more money they do not actually have.

The Reagan legacy was sold out by the communist liberals and the indifferent vote-grubbing, big spending neo-cons. This is what happens when you do NOT honor free markets and use government to distort markets to try and achieve financial fantasyland. No, this is not a Reagan free market. It is a Marxist fantasy where all problems can be resolved with the wave of the magic wand Comrade Obama and his minions claim to have. They are fools and they are liars.

[Tim Daneliuk]

One is a Southern communist, the other one is an urban communist.

You mean by meeting with Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Castro, Hezbolla, and Hamas?

Where "disenfranchised" = "everyone who wants something that does not legitimately belong to them".

I hope he starts - if elected - by walking everywhere and eschewing the use of all technology that is supposedly causing this imaginary bugaboo of yours.

This should actually bring the US to a leadership position in

Yes, by passing laws to make the economy work better on the command of congress, no doubt.

I thought he was going to heal the sick via miracles as he walked on water.

[Swingman]

What bailout, eh?

Now we get to watch WS throw their little hissy fits for a while, then market forces will take over, for better or worse, and we can get back to things like manufacturing, technology and agricultural and forgo this trading of little bits of paper around as the holy grail of capitalism

Too bad though ... while the House finally got something right, it's a sure bet it will turn out to be for the wrong reasons.