Jointer or planer?

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Thanks, I'll try to back track to locate this plan.
wrote:

<http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id $118>
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I had not luck. I am missing quite a few post. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction. TIA

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You're just making a flat bottom so you can get a parallel top. In the simplest form it's a piece of plywood with the low spots on the board shimmed and hot-glued for the first couple of light passes. Use your eyeball or winding sticks to get the best fit and have at it.
Helps if you have good metal serrated infeed rollers. Some of us just hot glue shims to the high spots to stabilize and run it that way. With the serrated infeed and a set of bed rollers you can feed with almost no downward pressure.
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Thanks, I appreciate the information. That hot-glue works good. I had my mind set on a sled for a jointer. With this type of sled it should work good using the thickness planer.

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On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:34:17 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

O.K., works for you. It'll probably work for anyone. Even me.
After 20 years of dorking around with wood, I still haven't found a need. Yet. I just think it's pretty time consuming. I already waste a lot of time on other things.
What I use is a DJ-20 and a DeWalt 12" (?) planer. Big stuff goes to Kettle Moraine hardwood to go through their thickness sander, but only when it's already close to finished size.
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Sun, Dec 10, 2006, 1:25am (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@removethis.yahoo.com (GeorgeMax) doth sayeth: O.K., works for you. It'll probably work for anyone. Even me. After 20 years of dorking around with wood, I still haven't found a need. Yet. I just think it's pretty time consuming. I already waste a lot of time on other things. <snip>
Yup, works for me. Probably work for anyone - IF they wanted to do it that way. But that's up to them. If I was doing this for a living I'd be doing a LOT of things different. Probably still do a few the same, but most not. However, I don't pay my bills that way, so I don't ve to be very efficient, if I don't want to be, and definitely don't have to work under a time constraint. So, if I take 15 minutes to do something my way, when I could do it in 5 another way, I'll probably stick with my way - because I like to. It's a hobby. I don't have to work fast, or efficiently - can't work too fast any more anyway, bad joints. However, I spent a lot of time as a kid helping my grandfather. Most people nowadays would call him a master carpenter - and a Hell of a lot better than Norm he was - but correctly he was a journeyman. He made some outstanding stuff, with just a tablesaw and some hand tools, and I picked up a lot from him. I could be a lot more efficient if I wanted to, but by the time I figure out just what type of a jig I need, and just how I want it done, then to actually do it, I've usually wasted more time then I've saved. But that's part of the fun.
JOAT I am, therefore I think.
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Wrong, tell that to the 200 BF of 8' long oak I have that was all rough cut and not perfectly flat or straight.

From the factory, yes. With a jig, no.
The fence on the jointer is used to make one of the edges adjacent to that flat face perpendicular to it.
On long boards this is easier and faster on a TS with a jig.
Various

True
You mention flat enough. If your board is not "flat enough" you should not even consider using a jointer to flatten it. There will simply be too much waste. Better to rip the piece on a band saw to get rid of most of the cup or cross cut to a shorter length to get rid of most of the bow. The planer jigs work really well.
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On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:02:44 GMT, "Leon"

I used to use an 8' straight edge and a router for that (long boards.) Not since I got a serious jointer though.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Ibid.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
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On 7 Dec 2006 18:31:33 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

Kinda depends on your needs. If you buy all of your hardwood already surfaced then you may not have as much need for a planer. If you do a lot of ripping you might use a joiner to clean up your sawed edges. Personally, I have more need for a joiner and would buy that first. YMMV.
Mike O.
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Damn, I wish one of these used jointers were in the Asheville, NC area! Mike O. wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Peter, I might be able to put you in touch with a really good jointer (and other tools), in the Ashville area, for really cheap. Can I email you directly?
Sonny
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wrote:

Food for thought here.
A planer will allow different thickness stock that is not always available at a reasonable price. A jointer is NOT correctly used to clean up after a TS rip cut. To maintain uniform width you need a reference fence. If you saw does not leave a shiny smooth edge consider spending $100 for a premium quality blade and read a book on tuning up your TS. 23 years ago I was under the assumption that I should have the jointer first. I am now on my second planer and the jointer pretty much sets collecting just.
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On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:09:37 GMT, "Leon"

I guess we'll have to disagree here Leon. If you have a well tuned saw and a well tuned joiner you can rip rails and stiles for an entire kitchen, join the edges and have a quite uniform stack of material waiting for assembly. The reference fence is still on the table saw but a properly tuned joiner will remove material consistently along the board's edge therefore maintaining uniformity. I have a good number of quality blades but would never consider making face frames or doors without a joiner.
BTW, I've never seen ANY blade (and I've used most brands) that will leave as good an edge as sharp joiner knives or a hand plane will.
Mike O.
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"Mike O." wrote in message

My experience is entirely different ... and my jointer is properly tuned.
The only way _I_ can guarantee that opposite edges are parallel is to rip an opposite edge on a "properly tuned" table saw ... even the best set up jointer simply will not guarantee that, IME.
Besides, parallel edges/faces are not in the job description for a jointer. ;)
And my Freud Glue-Line rip blade will consistently leave as good as edge as is necessary for any woodworking endeavor, if for some reason I feel my Forrest WWII won't suffice.
Your mileage may obviously vary ...
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Learn to use your jointer. It removes, when properly used, the same amount of material all along the length of the board. Its "fence" is the outfeed table, remaining a constant distance above the infeed throughout, just as your tablesaw blade remains a constant distance from that fence. Only difference is the jointer is capable of taking out bow which might result from new tensioning of the narrower board as well.
It's your woodworker's eye reading the board you're ripping that warns you when it might be necessary to rip two passes oversize. Sometimes even that's not enough.
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"George" wrote in message

Look up above and learn to read.

FACT: If you are attempting to use a jointer to obtain parallel edges/faces, you are misusing the tool.
While you are not a big enough fool to argue that point, as above, you will step to the edge of doing so even though you DO know better.
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The edges of your material should come off the joiner just as square or out of square as they are ripped. The fence on the joiner is inconsequential when cleaning up ripped edges. You could in fact remove the fence entirely though it's not recommended. If your tables are flat and parallel and blades are installed on the proper plane you should be able to repeat the square ness of your rips very accurately. If you rip your stock at 2 degrees out of square you should be able to run it across your joiner (not using your fence) and it will still be 2 degrees out of square. All your trying to do is keep your stock flat on the tables.

That's why you rip them first.

But, if you wipe a wet finger across that edge you will find the remnants of hairline kerf marks. At some point in your building process I'm sure you address those.

Obviously, it does.:-)
I might suggest that not that long ago, before we had the quality of blades we have today, every rail and stile made was either run through a joiner to remove kerf marks or attacked by a hand plane.
Another thing to note is that in any cabinet manufacturing facility that I've been through, sawed edges are addressed in some similar manner. While rails and stiles are cut with a computerized saw, the material edges are cleaned up in some way prior to assembly by either a big automated joiner or planer or some type of sander. A sawed edge is never the final edge.
IMO the joiner is used less and less because people are afraid to use it, don't know how to use it and/or don't know how to set one up. While today's blades may (for some) eliminate the need to join edges, the process has been done since the first block plane and then when some guy figured out how to get the blade from his plane spinning fast enough, it was done with a joiner. Some of us are still doing it.
Mike O.
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Geez.... Do you also run your plywood panels through the jointer after cutting them ?????
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I somehow doubt that he leaves exposed plywood edges in his finished work.
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Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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