I'm throwing my CAD software away

Well, I read everybody's comments on my last post about looking for some tutorial help with TurboCAD and I have decided to throw my software away.
I spend all day at work on the computer, I read e-mails, I write memos, I build spreadsheets and I read the WRECK (oops, not suppose to say that <grin>).
Well it dawned on me last night. I LOVE spending time in the workshop so I am going to buy drafting equipment and go a different route. I don't spend enough time in the shop and this would be a great way to turn on the talk shows (now that would be a post for a political news group!) and do some old fashioned drafting.
Many of you said that is where you should start and I did have one class at a Junior College years ago but may as well act like I never had one.
Any suggestions on a good drafting textbook? Of everyone who said you need the drafting concepts and skills before you learn CAD, only one person listed a textbook and it was Mechanical Drawing, French and Svensen. Don't know if it is in print (Amazon / Barnes&Noble are next).
If anyone has suggestions, I would welcome them.
Thanks for all your comments on the previous thread.
Pops
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Maybe a moderately priced 3D program like Truespace would be more interest- ing for you than CAD, you can still do dimensionally accurate work but have a lot more freedom to use intuition.
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I have not heard of this program do they have a web site ???
Thank You George

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http://www.caligari.com
Like in Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, get it? That's the website for Truespace. They have very agressive advertising because they compete with many higer priced programs, but its a good value.
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Try this one out if you can find it somewhere. Engineering Graphics Fundamentals by Arvid R. Eide
Bert G. Plank Newfoundland, Canada
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Pops, Go to your local college book store and find out which book is being used. Drafting is much more than drawing lines a certain length and connecting them. You will find that geometry comes in to play quite often and that there are many short cuts that eliminate the need to use a scale when needing to draw lines an exact direction or length.
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Leon, thanks for the advice. I actually went onto Amazon and ordered 3 text books. 1 Very old (1966), one more current and one that supposedly covers both Drafting and CAD (I know, I know, the CD isn't in the garbage yet but my coffee cup is eyeing it as a coaster).
Grand total for all 3 including shipping was something like $40.00. A couple of them I got for less than $5.00 and they were recommended by people in the wreck. I spent another $100 on supplies (including a table top board with slide). I'm off and running. Now if I could just get the wife and kids to sleep in a couple more hours each day...................
Oh yea, and last time my library had a book sale, I picked up a book on Geometry for a couple of buck too.

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May I have your Turbo Cad? I'll gladly pay shipping. Lawrence

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Go here: http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0002.16 and download the Learning Edition. You will have to fill out a form. Don't worry about that. Imsi is a reputable company and does not spam you. You may hear from then 3 or 4 times a year. The Learning Edition is in actuality Turbocad Version 4 Professional. It was the last one they put out before going 3D. Be sure to go here: http://www.imsisoft.com/faminfo.asp?fam=1 and check out the user discussion forums. It is extremely active and you will find the members very helpful. There is even a category for woodworkers.
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----- Original Message -----
> Any suggestions on a good drafting textbook? Of everyone who said you need > the drafting concepts and skills before you learn CAD, only one person > listed a textbook and it was Mechanical Drawing, French and Svensen. Don't > know if it is in print (Amazon / Barnes&Noble are next). > > That's the book I would buy (if I needed to). I already own 2 editions of them (7th and 10th). We used them in Highschool and again in the drafting classes I had in college. It covers all the basics. The newer editions 10th and 11th cover a lot more CAD. Good hardbound copies are probably gonna run anywhere from $30-$120
I would also suggest Jim Tolpins - Measure Twice Cut Once. Its not just how to read a tape measure!
KSCowboy
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manual drafting seems a dying art , scale rule , adjustable set square , and all that stuff that teaches spacial awareness on large drawing board. look up geometry and persective for example.
books by A.C Parkinson , a series printed in the 60s Engineering workshop Drawing Intermediate Engineering Drawing Foundations of Technical Drawing Pictorial Drawing for Engineers.
published by Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons Ltd
go to abe.com and search for books by a c parkinson there are tons of his drawing books listed for a small sum that should sort you out , no more excuses !!! ***********************************************************************************
A.C. PARKINSON A FIRST YEAR ENGINEERING DRAWING LONDON: SIR ISAAC PITMAN AND SONS, 1934. BOARDS. Very Good/No Jacket AS ISSUED. SECOND. Bookseller Inventory #002983 Price: US$ 6.67 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: WEBBOOKSUK(Jim and Anne Vogler), WIGTOWN NEWTON STEWART, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 3. Parkinson, A C Intermediate engineering drawing including a course in plane and solid geometry, and an introduction to design Pitman 1947. Very Good. 2nd edition tenth impression Illustrated with line drawings throughout Theavy card covers. Bookseller Inventory #430038 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Uncle Phil's Books, Coventry, West Midlands, UK, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
5. PARKINSON, A C: Intermediate engineering drawing: London: Pitman, 1947: 2nd ed. 10th imp. Hbk; small 4to; pp187; index; cover is boards; Vg for age; includes a course in plane and solid geometry, and an introduction to design; Bookseller Inventory #2164 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Peakirk Books, Peterborough, CAM, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 6. A.C. Parkinson A First Year Engineering Drawing London: Pitman, 1953. Paper Covered Boards. Very Good/Good. Fourth Edition. Hardback. 7" x 10". 182 pages including index and crammed with technical illustrations. Dustjacket repaired with large pieces missing. Bookseller Inventory #003906 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Bosco Books, Looe, Cornwall, CON, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 7. A. C. Parkinson A First Year Engineering Drawing London: Pitman, 1959. Paper Covered Boards. Very Good/Fair. Reprint. Hardback. 7" x 10". Covers and contents clean and bright. Dustjacket torn with pieces missing. 190 pages. Bookseller Inventory #009473 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Bosco Books, Looe, Cornwall, CON, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 8. Parkinson A C Success In Engineering: Guide To Careers In All Branches Of Engineering, Building And Technology National Institute Of Engineering. London nd, G copy, has some slight soiling, card pictorial covers are edgeworn and have minor foxing/soiling. Bookseller Inventory #00900 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Much-More Books, Much Wenlock, SAL, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 9. A.C.Parkinson, Illustrated by A First Year. Engineering Drawing London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, 1955. Stiff Card Covers. Good+/Good. 4th Edition. 8vo - over 7" - 9" tall. 182pp with index, text, drawings and pull out plans. Not price clipped, no inscriptions. A clean copy with some wear to corners of dj and a little to head/heel of spine. Bookseller Inventory #2462 Price: US$ 8.34 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: WEST WESSEX BOOKS, Taunton, SOM, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
12. Parkinson, A. C.: A first year engineering drawing covering the first year National Certificate Course in Mechanical Drawing London : Pitman, 1953. 4th edition (with minor additions). Hardback in a protected dust jacket. VG/VG. With a foreword on the teaching of the subject by J.H. Currie. Bookseller Inventory #20773 Price: US$ 9.18 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Active Booksearch, Grantham, LIN, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 13. Parkinson, A. C.: A first year engineering drawing covering the first year National Certificate Course in Mechanical Drawing London : Pitman, 1953. 4th edition (with minor additions). Hardback in a protected dust jacket. VG/VG. With a foreword on the teaching of the subject by J.H. Currie. Bookseller Inventory #20773 Price: US$ 9.18 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Gravity Books, Grantham, Lincs, LIN, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 14. Parkinson, A C Intermediate engineering Drawing Pitman 1943. Some coursework loosely inserted. Printed boards. TP torn, no loss o/w near VG. Bookseller Inventory #403 Price: US$ 9.59 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Booked to Enjoy, Cairndow, Scotland, Arg, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 15. Parkinson, A C Intermediate Engineering Drawing Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons. Good, hardcover. 1947. Including a course in plane and solid geometry and an introduction to design. Bookseller Inventory #g0757 Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Repeated Reading, Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
18. A. C. Parkinson Intermediate Engineering Drawing Including a Course in Plane and Solid Geometry and an Introduction to Design London: Sir Isaac Pitman, 1959. Photo Available Any Angle. Very Good/Very Good. very clean tight in unclipped dust jacket with the slightest of chips to the jacket. Bookseller Inventory #c1061 Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: John L Cooper, Great Yarmouth, NFK, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 19. A.C.Parkinson Intermediate Engineering Drawing London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, 1954. Very Good/Very Good. Fourth Edition. Small 4to. 247 pp , Many drawing examples and two inserts . Bookseller Inventory #005500 Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Croft Selections, Market Rasen, LIN, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 20. A.C.Parkinson A First Year Engineering Drawing London: Issac Pitman, 1955. Hard Cover. Good/Good. Reprint. 8vo - over 7" - 9" tall. 182pp. A nice clean copy,d.j.a little torn on the top edge, otherwise sound and firm. Bookseller Inventory #3050 Price: US$ 10.01 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: WEST WESSEX BOOKS, Taunton, SOM, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 21. Parkinson, A. C. A First Year Engineering Drawing Covering the First Year National Certificate Course in Mechanical Engineering London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, Ltd. 1941. Hard Cover. Very Good+/Good. Fifth Edition. There is a little rubbing on the spine ends o/w a very crisp, clean and tight 4to book of 182 page, 291 figs and tables. The unclipped dustwrapper has small pieces missing on the extremities and has supportive repairs. Bookseller Inventory #010105 Price: US$ 10.84 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Recycling Books, Gloucestershire, UK, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 22. PARKINSON, A.C. & AYRES, E.A. Geometrical and mechanical drawing: Book 1: Plane geometry London: Pitmans, 1964 - 1st edn. 4to., vii, 88pp., profusely illustrated with line drawings. Ex-lib., usual library stamps, remains of label fep. Orig. bdg., btm cnr. bmpd., o/w in Very Good condition Geometrical and mechanical drawi ng: Book 1: Plane geometry. Bookseller Inventory #1764 Price: US$ 10.84 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Mary Bradley-Cox, Bournemouth, DOR, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
24. Parkinson A C: A First Year Engineering Drawing Pitman 1964. 190pp Ills by dwgsvg+ in poor dw. Bookseller Inventory #4058 Price: US$ 11.68 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: NIGEL BIRD BOOKS, TREGARON, DFD, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 25. A.C.Parkinson A.C.P.(hons) F.Coll.H. F.I.E.D., Illustrated by Diagrams A First Year Engineering Drawing London: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons, Ltd. 1955. Hard Cover. 4th Edition (reprint). 8vo - over 7" - 9" tall. Covering the first year National Certificate ~Course in Mechanical Engineering. In very good, clean and tight condition. Bookseller Inventory #000310 Price: US$ 12.51 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Antom Books, Driffield, EY, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 26. Parkinson, A C Engineering Inspection London, United Kingdom: Sir Isaac Pitman & Sons. Fair. in No DJ Issued Ex-military library, edges scuffed and has one inch of damage to top of spine. A photograph of this book is available. Binding is Hard Cover. 8vo - over 7" - 9" tall. Bookseller Inventory #6016 Price: US$ 12.51 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Lost Books, Swaffham, NOR, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 27. A.C PARKINSON INTERMEDIATE ENGINEERING DRAWING ENGLISH HARDBACK 5TH EDITION 1961 DUST JACKETY VERY GOOD PLUS BOOK FINE. ISBN:0273406930 Bookseller Inventory #KS4063 Price: US$ 13.35 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: R.F. & C WARD ( Book Dealers Est.1984 ), NORFOLK, NFK, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question) 28. Parkinson, A. C. Pictorial Drawing for Engineers London: Pitman & Sons, 1953. Hard Cover. Good/No Jacket. First Edition. Large 8vo. A clean sound copy of this classic. School library stamps on fep but no other ex-lib signs. Bookseller Inventory #2887 Price: US$ 13.35 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: NorWest Books (UK), Carlisle, CMA, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
30. Parkinson, A C A First Year Engineering Drawing; covering the first year nationa l certificate course in mechanical engineering Pitman 6th ed 1961. Pitman 6th ed 1961 VG book P dj hardback ISBN: Bookseller Inventory #10107 Price: US$ 13.43 (Convert Currency) Bookseller: Brown Studies, Airdrie, Lanarkshire, SCOTLAND, CEN, United Kingdom (Search this Seller's Books)(Ask Bookseller a Question)
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I was talking to a draftsman (yes, I use the old, politically incorrect term) a while back. He was saying that some of the architects that sent drawings to them still did their drawings on a board. He was complaining that they would have to redraw them in CAD so they could do the details. I asked him why they don't just put it on the board and do the details. He said that no one where he worked knew how.

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| | I was talking to a draftsman (yes, I use the old, politically incorrect | term) a while back...
I probably should have been paying more attention to this thread. My academic experience has been in computer design methods for engineers, and my early professional experience was in developing automation methods for design engineering -- integrated assembly design, etc. Much of that discussion applies here.
I learned paper-and-pencil drafting. I like paper-and-pencil drafting. I'm good and paper-and-pencil drafting. My work with CAD was primarily to address why people don't use it in the early stages of design. The answer is that it's clunky and restricts creativity in the early stages. People who come up with the best geometric designs, whether it be a gearbox bearing for a rocket engine or an elegant console table, think visually and "brainstorm" visually. CAD systems, in general, provide poor tool sets and methods for supporting this way of thinking.
My most beloved mentor was a guy who worked as a mechanical engineer on the Apollo spacecraft, the docking mechanisms to be precise. This guy is still a practicing engineer, and although he is big into CAD, he still carries with him everywhere a pad of that pale green grid paper that engineers like to use. He spends every spare minute drawing something on that pad freehand.
My experience has been that those who are best at design in general are those who can draw with pencil, even if the final design is on a CAD system. Further, those who are the best at design can draw well freehand. There seems to be a very strong correlation between those who can express themselves visually and accurately WITHOUT a CAD system, and those who produce quality, usable, visually appealing designs intended toward any purpose or recorded in any medium.
In technical drawing we learned the tedious process of "geometric construction" (e.g., constructing a hexagon using only simple drafting tools). CAD systems all but eliminate geometric construction. You click on "hexagon" and drag it where you need it and size it to what you wanted. That's not really the point. By learning -- even via tedium -- the simple basis from which complex shapes and relationships are made, you expand your spatial vocabulary.
CAD is here to stay, but CAD is not the solution to all design problems. CAD is great for managing the complexity of commercial design needs, for automating some of the time-consuming elements of design, and other efficiency-oriented things. The business of design requires this level of efficiency. It is less well suited to the task of "capturing ideas on paper". And, sadly, it should be. It's wasteful to put an idea on paper and, in a separate effort, put in in a computer.
But if my work with CAD/CAE/CAM has taught me anything, it's that the skill of producing a design on a sheet of paper using nothing but a square, a straightedge, a compass, and a pencil, is *not* an outmoded, archaic, or useless skill.
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Jay Windley wrote:

Jay,
Thank you for this post.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
  Click to see the full signature.
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Kudos to Jay Well said . I'm an older Engineer and learned Mechanical Drawing with pencil and paper. I've been into computers and since the TRS - 80. Those who remeber it are as old as me. I'm a slave to computers and lost my drawind skills (if I had any at all). Anyway people lose sight of the fact that computers only help to speed what humans instruct it to do not create or design.
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That's the spirit!

I suggest a pencil with an eraser, a ruler and a pad of graph paper with 4 lines/inch.
--

FF

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