Help with Joint Gluing Problem

[mickey]

Hello, Please don't laugh at me...I've started a project reshaping a guitar and I need advise before I continue.

As you'll see here --

--I want to fill the curves in the guitar in order to make the sides straight (after I've filled the curves, I'll plane the sides straight--they were cut large for that purpose).

I'll be cutting/carving the insert part from a piece cut off from the same guitar (you can see it underneath the curve). The curves aren't perfectly straight, since I had to take down the sides a bit to remove the original rounded edge.

So I don't know if I'll be able to get a perfect fit between the inserts and the curves. Perhaps someone can suggest a means of doing that? (I'm reluctant to do any more sawing because I'm afraid I'll screw it up)

Is there a way of building up the sides of the curves and the inserts so that they'll mate enough to get a strong glue bond?

For example, can I make a paste of wood glue and sawdust (from the same wood) which can be applied to one of the surfaces --then press the insert into the to paste fill the uneven parts -- then let that dry ...and finally glue the insert into place (which will then fit perfectly)?

Is this impossible (for example, the glue won't bond properly with the glue/sawdust mix?

The look of the joint isn't a big issue --I'll be sealing the wood, then priming it, then painting, then applying finish, so the gap/glue line shouldn't show too much.

Sorry for the long silly message. I realize you're all cringing in horror or laughing out loud by now...but I'll appreciate your help!

[J.B. Bobbitt]

If you're painting over the patches, it shouldn't be too big a problem either way.

BUT, using glue or a glue/sawdust goop to fill gaps isn't good practice. I'd recommend using a form or template to cut both the guitar body and the inserts, using a band saw or router. That way, both pieces will have the same profile and you'll have a glue joint you can depend on, rather than a joint you'll always be suspicious of..

-jbb

[Dave Mundt]

Greetings and Salutations... Hum...I gather then that the existing notch is an error that needs to go away... Well, one thing that I see that could be a problem is that it LOOKS as if the walls of the notch are NOT at a perfect 90 degrees to the top. I.E. they slant. That makes cutting a plug even more of a pain in the butt. How about this: 1) Use a router and a guide to "clean up" the notch, so it is smooth and perpendicular to the face of the wood. 2) Use the SAME jig, clamped to the filler piece, to shape the curve to be glued into the notch. 3) Glue the two together with a good glue (Polyurethane would be my choice...Gorilla glue, etc) 4) reshape the patch to taste. Regards Dave Mundt

[Mike Marlow]

Since it's a solid body guitar and there's not a lot of tone issue in what you're doing, I would just make a straight cut up the side of the guitar and remove the entire notched side of the guitar. Then you can glue up your extra stock in a nice straight line. Use just about any type of joinery you choose or just glue it up. A great deal of very high end guitars are glued up with no other mechanical assistance in the form of dowels or biscuits or anything else. Use a decent wood glue like Tightbond and glue the surfaces well and clamp them up. Presto - you're all set to try reshaping it again. Don't even bother trying to fit the piece back in.

[mickey]

Hi all, Thanks for not laughing...;-D

Problem is, the extra stock I have isn't large enough to simply square off the side (tempting though!). It might be possible to reshape the curve into a triangle though...It'll be easier to cut the insert accordingly.

Guess I'll have to take this to a friend with a router! (I was hoping to do this all by hand...stubborn, I am)

[Mike Marlow]

Laugh? Hell, you never saw some of my more boneheaded moves. Leaves me in no position to laugh at anyone else. Go ahead and take it to your friend and get a nice true V cut into it that is something you can plug your scrap into. Then proceed with the glue up any way you wish. I think you said you're going to paint the guitar when you're done so if that's the case, use any good wood filler to blend the seams after you glue it in. Go for the most wood to wood surface area you can get, for a good glue joint. Then smear the filler across the joints as needed to hide the seam. Spread it thinly and wide across the joint so that you can taper it to a blend and not have a noticeable line where the filler is. Use a paint stick wrapped in sandpaper to sand down the area and achieve the right blend. Then proceed as you would have if you never hit this little roadblock. Good luck.

[bridger]

if you get it at the right places, wood's a lot cheaper than your time.

[Silvan]

Or scratching our heads trying to figure out just what on earth you're doing. It's a piece of wood with a curved notch cut out of it. I don't see a guitar, or how this fits onto a guitar, or what the point of any of this exercise is. I'm confused.

[Mike Marlow]

It's a solid body guitar. He started notching for the waist of the guitar but didn't like what he did. That's the cut out you see. He never got to the point of cutting out the ears or shaping the butt.

[mickey]

Close!...it *is* a solid body guitar but it actually started out as a copy of a Fender Telecaster. I'm modifying its shape into more of a Bo Diddley rectangular guitar design (but I like the Telecaster sound).

The curves/notches there are part of the original telecaster design. What I've done so far is (roughly) cut off the sides --I'm using those pieces for shaping the inserts that will fill in the curves/notches. That way I won't have two different types of wood on there (the wood is alder, a very lightweight variety).

This link will give you a better idea of what I'm trying to achieve:

I've now decided to keep the rounded bottom (on the left in this one: )

After I get the notches properly filled, I'll plane/rout the sides to get them flat and straight. Then I'll be painting and finishing the guitar-- so the glued in pieces won't show much, if at all.

I chose to modify an existing guitar rather than build from scratch in order to avoid the crucial issues of routing the neck pocket and getting the bridge positioned properly while I build up some skills....

I've never really worked with wood before, in large part because I've never been excited by a project before. But I prefer the sink or swim method of learning!

That's why I already have a second guitar lined up... ;-D

Thanks to the comments here, I have a good idea of how to proceed, i.e., I'm going to pay a visit to someone with a router!. That isn't easy for me, because I'm kind of a stubborn type that likes to learn by doing...and I also wanted to avoid using power tools. Something about the spiritual aspect of fashioning my guitar by hand...(I spend a lot of time with guitars in my hands...)

Thanks for your tips!

[Australopithecus scobis]

Uh, I'd buy the spiritual aspect thang if this were an acoustic guitar, but an electric? 8^)

[mickey]

It's still wood. It still lives. It's in your hands. It still speaks for you.

And it looks much cooler. ;=D

[Mike Marlow]

Oh c'mon... there's tons of spirituality in electric guitars... just not in Fenders.

[Ba r r y]

It all depends on the Fender.

Barry

[Mike Marlow]

Noooo. Single coils - they're just plain evil.

[Ba r r y]

My Fender bass is from the days when a P-J pickup combination was something you did yourself.

Barry

[Swingman]

True ... my 43 year old '61 Jazz has plenty of "spirituality". You just have to know how to bring it out.

[Mike Marlow]

'61 - nice. Don't we all wish we kept some of the old gear we had from way back? I was just commiserating with some friends the other night about some of the stuff we dumped over the years.

[Swingman]

it looked about ten years ago. I've owned it for over 35 years, been around the world once with it, and halfway round once again (and it looks like it).

Bought it from a relative who bought it new with a factory custom factory finish that Jerry Lee Lewis' bass player used - "Champagne Pink". Neck date stamp is Oct 1961, but it came stock with the regular pots, instead of the concentric pots of the earlier 61's. That late in 1961 it is in actuality probably one of the first '62's, if not the first.

It has a growly, low tone that sits well in a mix with a kick drum and works real nice on 'groove' tunes and jump blues numbers:

also have a MusicMan fretless, and there was a 10 year period where I played mostly upright, but the Jazz gets most of the work the past decade or so. Did swap the original pickups with EMG's some years back, mainly for studio work, but still have the originals with the passive pots ready to drop back in about ten minutes.

If I sound like it's one of my kids ... it is. :)

I built one like it a few years ago (OBWW), equipped it mainly with old parts I'd picked up down through the years, along with an old Fender neck I traded for, but I sold that one because it just didn't have the guts (spirituality?) of the Jazz.

If I ever lose it, I'll probably quit playing.

[mac davis]

I think the one on my truck said "ouch" when my kid crunched it..