Foundation VII - crunching numbers, dirt clods & teeth

[John Moorhead]

Folks -

Today I spent most of the day doing honest work - shoveling dirt. I cleared out 3 1/2 piles of dirt along the outside 24' wall - about 10-15 wheelbarrows per pile... We've got LOTS of dirt.... Anyway, I cleaned things up around the trenches in preparation for bringing in materials for building the forms and all. I called the Building Inspector today and axed if he was available for some general and rebar-ish questions. He was more than accommodating and came by in the afternoon. He immediately saw the problem I had with "Deliverance Backhoe and Freakshow"... I explained the problem with the variances in the trenches and he suggested a three-part pour... which is what I was kinda wondering about anyway. He clarified the questions I had about rebar placement and made a couple of other good suggestions. I was up-front with him and tole him I may well ask him some obvious, dumb-ass grade question... but that this was new territory... He appreciated the candor...

Anyway, he suggested that I pour the footings alone, with a "key" channel in the middle, then pour the stem walls on top of footings - bring in any fill/sand/rock and make sure it's compacted well, then pour the slab. Tonight, it makes sense.... I want to reduce the "pucker factor threat vs. blowing the budget" factors to the best degree possible. The North wall trench is only 12" wide... and ~22 deep... The South Trench is 24" wide and up to 29" deep; the West trench is 19" wide and ~24" deep.... I haven't finished clearing out the East trench that abuts the garage yet but I expect it'll be at least 20" wide and 20" deep. Remember, I was shooting for 16" wide, 18" below grade...

So, for the North trench footing I don't need any forms - it'll just be 12" wide. The other 3 sides I'll set the forms 12" apart and set the height at

10" below grade all the way around. I have to have the stem wall a minimum of 6" below grade, so with this I estimate that the 6" stem wall will be 14-16" tall to leave me 4" for the slab level with the garage.

I am going to put 2 runs all around the perimeter (120" total) of #4 rebar on 3" dobies in the base of the footings, another in about the middle of the stemwall, and one at the top that will be enclosed in the slab pour. I am going to put vertical reinforcements in on 16" centers that will extend to the bottom of the stem wall, come up and bend 90 degrees and be buried in the slab. The inspector said that if they extended into the slab by about a foot that that would do it.

I refigured my cost estimates based on this new configuration and all of the materials come to $4,030, including about $700 for lumber for the forms that I'll prolly use for a greenhouse. The cost of the concrete includes delivery, so multiple deliveries won't screw me up cost wise...

Here's the quick cost summary:

W" H" Lineal Ft Ttl Yds Material Total Yds Qty unit price ttl

12 12 48 1.78 Concrete for 2 24' Footings 1.78 100 191.11 18 12 36 2.00 Concrete for South Footing 2.00 100 215.00 12 18 36 2.00 Concrete for North Footing 2.00 100 215.00 6 18 120 3.33 Concrete for Stem Wall 3.33 100 358.33 W' L' Thick " 24 36 4 10.66 Concrete for Slab 10.66 100 1145.52 24 36 5 13.32 Sand 13.32 22 315.02 0.00 0.00 0.00

Total for Aggregates 2439.98

Foundation Materials #4 1/2 Rebar 20' 33 2.65 94.01 5/8 - 10" Anchor Bolts 40 0.54 23.22 3x3 Dobies 90 0.55 53.21 16'x100' Tyvek VB 1 30 32.25 Rebar Ties, 1000 1 10.69 11.49 2"x6"x20' for forms 40 15 645.00 Misc. Lumber & Supplies 1 100 107.50 Total Foundation Materials 966.68

Subcontractor/Equipment Compactor (day) 2 days 60 64.50 Rebar Cutter/Bender 1 Week 95 102.13 Backhoe Svc 1 Each 425 456.88 Total Services 623.50

Total Materials & Services Estimate 4030.17

Sorry if the view doesn't quite make sense... I pasted from Excel... you can get the drift of it tho'...

So, that's the view of things for today.

John

[Mark Hopkins]

Thats more $$ than I have in my whole shop! Is there some reason why you must have such a beefy footing? I poured mine monolythic, (slab & footings at the same time) with rebar in the footings and wire in the slab over a sheet of visqueen. Is there some reason why you cannot do the same, or want to? I'm in Georgia so that may be the difference. Are you up in the north? Is this shop going to be multiple levels?

Please, don't mention "Deliverance" anymore, I can't bear to have the picture of Ned Beatty squealing like a pig in my head again today.... hehehe

13.32

[John Moorhead]

Mark -

Dang! You're lucky.... Well concrete is $100+ per yard and by my most economical estimates I'll be using 20 yards. As for the footings, code for my area calls for 12"x12", with a stem wall that is a minimum of 6"x6" with a 4" slab. I have to bring the slab level with the garage, and to do that, I need to make the stem wall about 18" tall. I have to have 4 pcs of rebar in the footings/stemwall all around the perimeter, verticals tying the stem wall to the slab ever 16" and the footings tied to the garage footings every

16".

Mind you, this is with the wife and I doing all of our own labor. I did get estimates early on, but most of the foundation contractors wouldn't give me the time of day for such a "small project" - go figure.... Anyway, the cheapest estimate I got was $9,000, the highest was over $12k... and that is JUST for the excavation, footings and slab... I still would have had to clear out vegetation and debris on the pad area. That works out to between $10.42 and $13.88 per square foot, just for the foundation.... It's NUTS!

Based on my estimates, my fdn cost will run about 4 bucks a square foot, not counting the form lumber... If I include the lumber it runs just over $4.50 a SF.

Because of the way the trenches were cut, I need to go with the method I've described, or buy about another grand worth of concrete. I can reuse the lumber for the forms, so that will be a bit of a help.

I would have loved to have been able to do a monolithic pour, but doing it in smaller steps will be wiser, given my lack of experience.

John

[patriarch]

"Mark Hopkins" wrote in news:aT8Rc.6930$ [e-mail]:

John lives in Northern California earthquake country, as well as in an area with somewhat expansive soils. Codes take that into account. Even when we're not trying to overengineer things, new construction, actually inspected, tends to cost more.

Next time you get to the Bay Area, check out what passes for a $1M house.

Patriarch

[Mark Hopkins]

That explains it. Pouring it level with the existing garage. You are on the right track to making that inspector happy. Sometimes they can save you money. I got several estimates for the concrete work, but it seems everyone was either starving or greedy around here. One Mexican guy I met at the borg was the most reasonable. He wanted .50 (yes, 50 cents) a square foot but couldn't do it for about a month. I kept his number for future jobs. Nice guy too. I wish I spoke spanish or he better english.

My site was almost level to begin with but the inspector made me go deep on the lower end due to softer soil. It was pick and shovel for a while since some of the dirt was very, VERY hard. I used a tiller to dig most of it over several weeks. I have taken my time on it. I still have about 1/4 of it to put siding on. Its pretty much weather tight now, wired and I still have a couple of final inspections left to get through. So far so good, we have had some storms lately with heavy rain and no leaks.

I bought most of the materials last year and stored them. I was glad I did that. I bought OSB when it was $4.73 a sheet. If I had waited, it would have been $18.00+ a sheet. Now its back down to around $11 a sheet. Studs were $1.53 then too, now at $3.11. I got lucky on the concrete as it was only $60 a yard since my father is tight with the owner of the company. 11 yards in the footings and slab. Metal roofing cost me $1.29 a foot and I had to install it. Nice charcoal gray color. Remind me to tell the story about the tarp and the city ordinance I got a ticket for before I poured the slab. (roof is about the same color as the tarp was)

I did the slab with the help of a neighbor and have built the rest by myself a stick at a time. Its been fun. (HA!) My roof is pretty steep (6.5/12) with a cathedral type ceiling in 2/3 of the interior. I built an 8 foot high section to support the garage door and give me some lumber storage space above. I used the sheathing that has a foil backing over polystyrene both on the exterior walls and on the roof between the 1/4's for the metal roofing. With just the walls insulated to 8 feet the place is pretty cool so far this summer. I still have some insulation to install in the rafters and on the ends of the gables. I think it will be nice and toasty this winter in there.

[Mark Hopkins]

That explains a lot! I thought they were into fires and mudslides these days? I guess if you make a structure heavy enough on the bottom, it will always stay in the right side up position. Hehehehehehe

I can imagine not very much passes for a $1M house these days anywhere. We have a shake or two here in Georgia, but nothing nowhere near as harsh as California....

"patriarch [e-mail]" "Mark Hopkins" wrote in

[Morris Dovey]

I saved a copy of the SJ Mercury's full-page photo of a tiny bungalow with the copy: "You always wanted a million dollar estate - you just thought it would be more than 750 square feet."

Made me wonder how young families/teachers/police/firefighters manage to cope. At some point it would seem that the Bay Area must price itself such that there won't be any public services.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 19:39:43 GMT, patriarch calmly ranted:

My buddy's mom sold her 800s/f 2br(?) house on a quarter acre lot in NorCal for $525k last year. Half a mil for a crackerbox that probably cost $10k to build in the 40's?

I'd hate to be holding title to an overpriced box there when the bottom falls out. Say, in November, if the Shrub makes it back in office...

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Shhhh! Keep quiet! It's hasn't shaken around here for a while and I'm afraid you'll wake the earthquake gods!

[Tim Douglass]

Probably cost less than half that in the 40s. A lot of those 750 -

1000 square foot tract houses only cost $3500 or so to build.

Tim Douglass

[patriarch]

Morris Dovey wrote in news:JAfRc.630$ [e-mail]:

There are multiple efforts underway to make things work for public employee types, because that's an identifiable group of people. It's also a limited size group, and one that has, for the most part, good public support.

The young families part is the one we haven't figured out yet. And I have four sons, between 24 and 30. Well educated, hard working, and willing to rebuild older housing stock, something is going to work out, but exactly what, isn't clear right yet.

Saw an older Victorian in central Oakland today, in a pretty tough neighborhood. The good news was the adult children, up on scaffolding, repainting and repairing the building, older than their parents.

Makes you feel good. It doesn't always take a Habitat for Humanity...

Patriarch

[patriarch]

"Mark Hopkins" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Fire season runs through late October. Mudslides generally don't start until almost Christmas. It's unusual when we have both in the same week.

Patriarch

[jo4hn]

Last year, an early November snowfall cooled the LA fires down considerably. The way things were going, I figured that we would get a real frog-strangler downpour which would wash the snow, the fire, and us down to the flat lands. The gully-washer didn't occur until Christmas day however. gloom, jo4hn