Face Frame Alignment

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Actually, and I have done this to get a consistent lip, using the same method you mentioned to make the FF flush, cut a 1" rabbet across the end of the plywood that you clamp to the inside base and let the depth of the rabbet index your consistent lip.
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George wrote:

Absolutely, until you go out and find minimum wage labor to do it.
UA100
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"Unisaw A100" wrote in message

FF
After having a subcontractor fail three separate times to put kitchen cabinet blocking in a stud wall in the right place, that is a good point.
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FF
Sounds like something they taught us in NCO school (also Officer school) would apply. You can delegate authority, but never responsibility.
Contractor gets minimum wage?
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George wrote:

In some parts of this country you wouldn't believe what passes. What I was referring to was factory help, as in factories where cabinets are made for places like Home Depot.
And you wonder why their prices are soooooooo low?
UA100
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It's easier/cheaper to have it not align. In other words, less skilled labor can be used.
UA100
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"Unisaw A100" wrote in message

The subject "lip" has always apperared to be a "traditional" design element of sorts to me. The question is whether its genesis is based on "skill" or some other factor?
Many custom cabinetmakers attach the FF to the carcass with a groove. Whether the top of the bottom FF rail is flush with the top of the floor of the cabinet is just a matter of cutting either a rabbet or a groove in said rail. The "skill" is the same to cut either with a power tool, and a lot more skill to cut the groove which insures the "traditional" lip, by hand.
IOW, if there was indeed a "skill" factor involved in the days of yore, it seems that the lip could have taken a tad more skill to produce.
I've rarely seen a face frame cabinet without this "lip" ... even the Mexican 'cabinetmakers' around here who "build-in" monolithic units use it when doing the traditional face frame cabinet.
In short, if you see a face frame cabinet with the subject lip, don't automatically assume that it is somehow inferior and made with "less skilled" labor.
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damian penney wrote:

Having the frame and the bottom flush sure makes thing easier to clean any spills on the inside of the cabinet.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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If "the lip" is a sign of craftsmanship/attention-to-detail, but you want to maintain "cleanability," then "just" chamfer the bottom rail's inside-top edge in advance of the FF assembly ;^)
Right? ;^)
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"TheNewGuy" wrote in message

I think the "lip" is a matter of preference, which can be made into anything you wish it to be ... and, in many cases, justification for the label "less skilled" labor involved ... but not always.

Actually, with a subtle lip, like the kind I prefer, a bit of 220 grit to "break/ease the edges" (as DJM is fond of saying) before assembly is generally all it takes.
AND, for all the naysayers, there is at least one benefit to the "lip" in the cleaning controversy:
Anything spilled in the cabinet stays in the cabinet ... instead of dripping all over Mom's apple pie, or that roast that just came out of the oven, and sitting on the countertop.
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Swingman wrote:

Oh, I agree. Was being a bit flip. I should have just said that if one WANTS the lip for whatever reason, then it could be chamfered to aid sweeping out crumbs/spills/messes/whatever. Of course it adds to production time, and more special handling of specific pieces.
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I recently built a whole house full of cabinets, using 3/4" birch ply and common #2 pine lumber. They aren't "fine craftsman" quality, but they're certainly nicer than anything we saw at the home centers (and a lot less expensive).
I made the face frames by ripping 1x6 and 1x8 pine boards into 2" strips. I then cut selectively between the knots to end up with mostly clear lumber for the face frames. I cut the frames to size and assembled them with pocket screws.
I made my face frames the same height as the cabinet sides, and the cabinet bottom is flush with the top of the lower rail of the face frame. Despite my best efforts, I didn't always achieve "perfectly" flush joints between the cabinet and face frame. But, a few minutes with a palm sander resulted in perfectly smooth joints. Much easier to clean the shelves than if the face frame stuck up a bit.
One advantage to having the face frame hang below the cabinet bottom is the ability to mount undercabinet lights on the bottom of the cabinet.
I didn't do any fancy joinery with my cabinets. The carcass is simply glued and nailed together with an air nailer. I also glued and nailed the face frames on. The glue provides the strength, the nails just hold everything together till the glue drys. Yes, we had nail holes to set, fill, and sand, but that was a minor issue and just adds to the character of our cabinets.
The carcasses were made of the 3/4" birch plywood, except where the sides of the cabinet shows. For those I glued up pine boards into panels that would match the cabinet doors and fronts.
I finished the cabinets with Minwax "preconditioner", followed by a coat of Minwax "Windsor Oak" stain, and two coats of Olympic Oil Based Satin Polyurethane.
We were aiming for a "rustic" look and are very pleased with the results. I tried to leave a select number of tight knots in the pine panels and whatnot which further enhanced the rustic appearance.
The only item I wished I had done differently was to stain the door panels before assembling the doors. We built the doors first, then sanded, stained, and finished them. However, a few weeks after moving into our house, the heat and dryness from our woodstove allowed the door panels to shrink away from the door frames. So, there are small unfinished lines running along the insides of the door frames. No biggy, but it wreaks of inexperience... :) Live and learn...
By the way, my favorite book on cabinet building is "Building Kitchen Cabinets" by Udo Schmidt. It's part of Taunton's "Build Like A Pro" book series. I learned a lot from that book...
Take care,
Anthony
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