End-grain planing

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How can you tell when a woodworker is lying?
When he claims he can cleanly plane the end grain of maple.
It's simply not possible.
JP
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Having a rough afternoon, Jay?
There's lots of maple. And lots of handplanes.
How clean do you want it? How large an end piece?
Patriarch
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Indeed. Things were going oh so nicely - doors were open on the shop, a nice breeze blowing, finish flowing perfectly, low dust levels, and a new quarter sawn maple kitchen was just humming along. Then I started to fit and clean up some doors. Ugh.
I like the idea of using a plane to clean up end grain, but I'm just not so sure of the technique. Do I need to get a miter plane from Lie Nielsen and rig up a complex shooting board? The pretty stile edges I can get with a plane make me want to carry that process to the rails. If I ScarySharp to 1500 grit, will that be enough? Maybe I'd better get ahold of some of those shapton stones that I just read were so well elutriated!

I want more handplanes. And more sharp blades. And more high quality power tools. What are you called when you just want the best for the job at hand? Neandermite? Normander?

I want it "clean", as in "no sanding". I understand that a shooting board may be necessary to avoid tearout if I go all the way across the bottom (or top) of a cope & stick cabinet door, but I'd prefer to just end the cut midway across the rail and then attack it from the other side. Then maybe break the edge with a quick swipe of 150. The stiles are 3" wide.

Are you a Father, or just a father?
JP ****************************** Just a son.
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wrote:

<snip> It can't stay perfect forever. Reality steps in. Unfortunately.

Human. And a woodworker.

Others are better qualified to instruct on technique. I am but a relative beginner to the ways of handplanes at the glass-smooth edge. And I just bought a drum sander. I guess that makes me a heretic, in some circles.

I am the father of four fine sons, and one beautiful grandson, 14 months old. In my father's generation, he was the only one of his brothers to have a son, me, and so the family name continues through my family only. 'Patriarch' was the new user name I put on one of my computers some years ago, when I needed to keep some things seperate.
I am active in my church, (not Catholic), but this is not the venue for a religious discussion, unless you count the feeling of finally planing maple end grain absolutely, perfectly mirror smooth.
Then it's time to quit for the day, with a smile. Even if it is only 11 am.

Have another go at it tomorrow. Sometimes it gets better.
Patriarch
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wrote:

can't count the number of times I've had hardware store sales drones tell me "there aint no such thing" when I ask for some piece of hardware that I have a sample of.
what they mean, of course is that they don't carry them (or have never heard of them...)
JP, you need to learn to sharpen.
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote:

Yep. That I do. I'm trying though. I think my shoddy backsharpening technique on plane irons is causing more trouble than it's (currently) worth!
JP **************************** Dullard?
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I guess you are trolling here Jay. Why else bring up the argument? BTY, I don't subscribe to it but I think you may need to sharpen your plane if you can't do this.

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<g> Just a *llittle*. It's all in the presentation. Especially inheavily fished waters....

Patriarch hit the nail on the head - just a little frustrated.

Yep - and work on my technique as well. Or maybe I should just figure out how to get cleaner trimming cuts out of bossman. Then I would have less to worry about cleaning up.
JP

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Not possible _for_you_ is not the same as not possible. If you're having trouble with this, you need to sharpen your plane iron, and possibly work on your technique as well. I don't have difficulty with this.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Rub it in why dontcha! What plane and iron do you use, and to what grit/grade do you sharpen?
Thanks - JP
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water wheel.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:48:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I keep seeing and hearing about those Tormeks. Would you recommend that as a sharpening system for a commercial shop? My guess is that I'll want to have a decent set up for chisels, plane blades and turning tools, but other blades and bits will be sent out.
JP
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Borrowing from Zagat's: $$$$$. But then you brought up the Panel Saw thang' didntcha?
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In the land of the penniless, money is no object.
I do plan on having a lathe and a basic set of turning tools, but that will not be my primary focus right out of the gate. If I do need some elaborate turnings there are a couple of dedicated turners to which I'll....uhh...turn.
I'll be using chisels and a few planes on a daily basis, so I'll definitely have a series of waterstones (+/-300 through 8k) to keep these in top order. Having spent a little time with ScarySharp these past couple of months, I'll probably have that setup as well, but for quick touchups I think a stone will be the way to go. Lapping and flatting will be done on a granite surfacing plate with microabrasive paper. Hell, I'll probably end up with a Tormek at some point! Right now I just don't know what's "best". It sure is fun to put a nice edge on a chisel.
Speaking of which, up until today I've been less than thrilled with the Lee Valley honing guide I've been using. The biggest problem has been that you need to hold the chisel or plane blade somewhat square to the jig while you try to adjust the bevel angle. And then, once you get the bevel angle right, you screw up the squareness by tightening the brass screw. Really a PITA, IMO.
If you don't have the jig, you won't know what I'm talking about but here goes....
Basically I milled a hunk of wood to the thickness such that when you set the honing guide flat on it, and then stick a particular thickness blade in it, it sits dead square and at the appropriate depth for (in my case) a 25d bevel. Remember to set the microadjustment to the top prior to setting the jig. All in all it's a block of wood with a smaller block of wood attached dead square so that a chisel with parallel sides sides at the right depth (and square) for honing.
If Robin Lee is out there, you should think about including a couple of these with the honing system. Shouldn't take but a minute with the CNC capapbilities you guys have - and it'll really make the guide much more effective. It's simply a block of aluminum milled to the appropriate thickness with a square reference edge for the side of your blade.
JP *************************** The cotter pin thingy is rusting as well.
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I'm one of those who doesn't have problems with that jig. If you do, consider making some wooden ramps which straddle your stones, a poor man's dodge.

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I, admittedly, am too much of a "Normite" -- I believe in machines. However, I would think it would be very possible with a sharp tool and some finesse. I have done a very nice job of end-planing even thick Oak using a jointer. Takes a very small depth setting and a light touch.
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A sharp, finely-set, low-angle block plane will sort it.
Cheers
Frank

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Wouldn't I be better off with a bevel down plane carrying a bit more mass?
JP
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wrote:

not necessarily. for the edges of doors a block plane can be a lot easier to control. if you're setting up a shooting board and have a low angle smoother or something it could be a different matter...
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Jay Pique wrote:

Block planes are designed for the purpose. That "more mass" may be part of your problem--lets you get up enough inertia to do a cut with a less than perfect blade but when you get to the edge that same inertia causes breakout. With any planing job you want the sharpness of the blade to do the work, not the inertia of the plane, but end grain is exceptionally unforgiving in this regard.
As to "how sharp", if it's not cutting satisfactorily then it's not sharp enough.

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--John
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