Domino Bathroom Drawers

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All things being equal concerning the latest from PC, think Leig Jig, destroyer...... PC DT jig, air crafter carrier, it is huge, almost the same width of a sheet of plywood, more than 13 inches tall and 18" front to back and 66 lbs. http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID 132
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On 2/27/2011 10:06 AM, dpb wrote:

The show stopper for fixed dovetail jigs is that you do usually want dovetails to show, which usually means under mount drawer slides.
These slides mandate the precise placing of the drawer bottoms dado, meaning you must have the ability to able to space the dovetails where this dado is invisible in the sides after assembly.
It is also another reason why jigs, like the PC, that allow you to cut both sides of a half blind dovetail at the same time, also fail ... the spacing must be fixed in that configuration, IIRC, making the above impossible/unlikely.
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My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox. <G> Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol' dovetails. By quite a margin.
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On 2/27/2011 2:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:

Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up and extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.
Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and rising at last count), which would have suited me just fine.
Besides, his new shop needed the tune-up ... and it raised the tone of the place to a high level for future projects. :)
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Not sure my stomach could'a stomached 50 if'n you know what I mean. ;~) Darn twisty wood.
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On 2/27/2011 3:52 PM, Leon wrote:

Whew!! You musta gotten all the branch wood. :)
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Them there trees that grow on the side of a hill.
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Here a representative side and back of the completely finished drawers in question:
https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenDemolitionWallRemoval?authkey=Gv1sRgCODv4OKAraChgQE#5577982059486805890
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Beautiful!!
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On 2/23/2011 1:55 PM, Swingman wrote:

One more side question...
I had in mind in the retrofit here to use undermount slides as well until I realized the same problem of they simply require to much lost space for the space available and number of drawers that are too few already (and there's not an option to make the kitchen larger here).
So, I've been looking for an alternate better than the corner-mounted rollers and center track that Dad used that can still get fit in (I built the cabinets and drawer boxes for folks some 30 year ago in a quick trip home and left the door-hanging, drawer mounting and finishing to him after went back home). Now they're getting old and I'm remaking doors and drawer fronts and going to refinish the faces.
The drawer boxes are 7/16" oak w/ 1/4" bottoms an approximate 3/8" space from bottom of bottom to bottom of side. The pretty well fit the opening on sides. Not sure, may not have much choice other than fit center tracks/rails w/ a UHMW glide.
Have you run across anything that might be a suitable selection? As noted, I hate to think of making the drawers themselves any smaller than they already are; I was planning on cutting off the existing fronts and cut the tails in place and go inset instead of overlay for both drawer fronts and doors.
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On 3/2/2011 1:27 PM, dpb wrote:

Sorry ... I've been making sure that this post remained as "unread" until I had time to reply.
I agree with Leon. Having built hundreds of drawers that were spec'ed for under mount hardware, I've been unable to find a centermount solution that would work in the kind of drawers you would want to use in a kitchen.
I have used single, centermount underdrawer slides for smaller drawers in desks and chests, but still ending up being forced to support the drawer sides with some type of support, like UHMW strips. These would not be practical in a kitchen, IMO
I've also seen another practice that works, but that I don't necessarily buy into, and that is using 3/4 extension side mount slides, mounted horizontally under the drawers instead of on the sides.
As long as you use a heavy duty slide that far exceeds the expected drawer load you may get away with it. But, the slide mechanism itself is not designed for a load in that direction and I'm of the opinion that they won't last long when used in such a contraindicated manner.
As you already know, undermount drawer slides are very picky about drawer dimensions and the drawers must be built within a narrow range of the specified dimensions to work at all.
I've never seen a case where an existing drawer could be retrofitted to accept today's undermount slides ... but you could always get lucky, and, IMO, that's what it would take.
Basically ... what Leon said.
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On 3/5/2011 10:19 AM, Swingman wrote:

OK, thanks for the input...I hear ya'... :)
I've done the side-mount turned flat underneath here for the printer slideout tray on the office desk I built when moved back and still had leftover consulting contracts to clean up for first few years from the previous life. As noted, they don't have the lateral strength to support the weight on their own so wouldn't consider that for a repetitive application like the kitchen. But, it works nicely for the space-saving app w/ the printer that only has to come out occasionally and has an underneath support that sits on the floor to support the printer when need it out to, say, scan larger document.
As noted in the other thread, I think I'll try a couple of the KV1129's; it turns out that the underneath drawer dimension does just happen to be their spec so looks like from that standpoint I did turn lucky, maybe. If not, I'll deal w/ the situation on down the road as I can live w/ the existing if have to for a while yet; I do want to finish the doors and get them hung before spring planting has to begin 'cause it cannot in any circumstances be put off when the day comes it's warm enough and we have moisture--everything else will have to wait at that point and harvest isn't far behind that and so chances are good nothing else will get done 'til next winter once farm season actually arrives...
Thanks for the input; just thought since you/Leon in particular here are active and it's been 30 yr now since were doing the retro houses in Lynchburg there might be something that's the cat's meow was unaware of as an alternative solution.
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Nicely done.
Thank you
I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that configuration. This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?
I believe that they add considerable strength in this configuration, they lock fronts and backs into the sides rabbets in the direction that the pulling and pushing force would be found.
22 years ago I built 2' x 3' pots and pans drawers simply using a rabbet joint reinforced with glue and finish nails. The drawers are as tight today as thery were then.
One question. Is the mortise cut in-place for both pieces after assembly?
After assembly, correct.
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Same question I was going to ask and it makes sense. Cut one hole and put the tenon in. One other question in this regard. Did you Domino the holes longer than the tenon and then bang them in until they were flush, or did you put them in with the ends proud and then trim them off?
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wrote in message

The Domino will only cut a 27mm deep mortise IIRC. The 6mm dominos are 40mm. When I first started doing this I painstakingly marked each domino to about 5mm longer than necessary and quickly ground it down on my disk sander.
Now I simply skip the length change step if possible and pound in the whole domino. I cut most of the excess domino off at the TS or BS. Large projects would dictate cutting with a hand saw or shorting at the sander.
I try to leave about 2 mm exposed. The Rotex in aggressive mode takes care of those nubs in a couple of seconds.
I have discovered Festool Crystal sand paper by accident. I picked some up on a clearance table, it is good for sanding painted surfaces, I thought I might need some one day. Because putting glue down both sides of a 6 mm wide hole can result with excess getting on the outer surface the dominos tend to make it hard to wipe that excess glue off. Basically I don't bother. As you probably know glue can quickly ruin a piece of sand paper. I was going through about 1 disk for each drawer on the first rough sanding. I tried the Crystal thinking that paint gums up like glue, I was able to average 7 times more with each Crystal disk when sanding simi cured glue around those dominos and rabbet joints. IIRC there is a new Festool paper, blue tinted, that is good for paint and wood, Granate I think.
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Nicely done.
I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that configuration. This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?
To clairify a bit more,,, the dominos will be visible from the side of the drawer when opened, they are on the side of the drawer.
Had they been installed in the front I can see how they would not add any strength.
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On 2/23/11 11:58 AM, Leon wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox /
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox /
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox /
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox /
Is the whole process faster than dovetailing?
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EXCELLENT question.
Not really. Obviously building a drawer with rabbets vs. DT's is quicker however once you build the drawer using either joint method you are done with assembly. Adding the Dominos requires plunge cutting the mortises, 12 for the big drawers, 8 for the small, distributing glue down both sides of all of those 6mm wide holes, pounding in the dominos, ( at this point I think this method takes about as much time as DT's). Then you cut the excess length dominos off and do quite a bit more rough sanding to flush up the dominos. Basically you do 2 sets of glue up for each drawer.
IMHO its a six of one half a dozen of the other think concerning strength and personal appearance preferences.
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A bit more on that, the DT is definetely a more complicated/fussy joint to produce with more opportunity to screw up. A rabbet joint is pretty simple although glue up is a bit testy. Plunging the Domino to make mortices is pretty much fool proof.
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Except that the Domino method is much less subject to error in my opinion.
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