circuit breaker requirement

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I just bought new Delta Unisaw model 36-L51X with the 5 hp motor. What amp breaker is required 30 or 40. Also I am planning basement shop and possible sub panel, I need breaker size for that also. Shop will include 2hp jointer, planer, band saw, miter saw, drill press and 1 1/2hp dust collection.
Thanks all,
Dave
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Let's see if I have this right- you're going to take the word of unknown, unseen strangers to ensure your electrical safety, with absolutely no recourse in case of error. Oh, and you'd like to know what size breaker to use in the feed to a subpanel with some assemblage of loads, not to mention that the line voltage to the t/s is unspec.
May I suggest you ask the dealer's recommendation for your situation, and consider at least having a licensed electrician inspect your work? For the hodge-podge, you need to find the draw for each, total up the draw for the worst possible case, and provide breaker and wiring "headroom" for safety and startup-draws. (Breakers don't behave like motor-starter overloads, which accomodate startup current draw.)
Of course, all the wiring will be sized accordingly, no? IOW, you really don't want to ruin your party with electrical probs, nor probs with insurance co. for fire and water damage.
J
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Amen...if you already have or are willing to acquire the knowledge to do the work according to NEC (National Electrical Code) standards, you will be fine, but it should still be inspected by a qualified inspector just to "cover yourself" with whatever company carries your home insurance policy. Some municipalities require that all work in homes be done only by licensed electricians. You will have to check your local city, town, village, etc. regulations.
--Jim

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KENDALL SEYBERT wrote:

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of a homeowner's insurance claim that was denied because the loss was caused by someone's inept wiring practices?
If so, please provide details, including the name of the insurance company.
Thanks.
-jav
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Thank you. I have posted a like question a couple of times in the past. There's a lot of mis-information about insurance companies, claims, etc. that tends to float around.
--

-Mike-
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I can assure that when I changed to a new insurance company last year that the agent came out to take pictures of the 24 year old house and specifically asked if any wiring had been added or changed. Farm Bureau is the insurance company. The agent is officed in Stafford, Texas, south west side of Houston.
That address and telephone number is
345 Dulles Ave Suite E Stafford, TX 77477 (281) 403-2562
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Can't contest that Leon, because if you say it happened, then it did. I've never had that experience - for what ever that's worth. What I have been part of though - and the direction that I believe this thread was heading with Javier asked his question, is a lot of fire investigations. Lots of faulty wiring findings. Never saw a single claim denied because of it.
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-Mike-
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It was a first for me.
What I have been

Which raises the question, about some of the Katrina victims that lost their homes. I saw on the news that claims were beind denighed for homes that disappeared. It is obvious that the homes could have been easily blown away by seeing surrounding evidence however the insurance companies are claiming rising water washed them away and not paying because regular home owners insurance does not cover rising water. Apparently the benefit of doubt is not being given as to whether the house blew away first or if it floated away first.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

That is exactly where I was going. I didn't call Leon's agent, I've no reason to doubt his experience happened as above.
But just as claims are paid for people who torch their houses by grilling in the garage, even though the grill was most likely labelled "outdoor use only", I'm willing to bet that claims would be paid for faulty wiring.
Sort of like someone plugging six power strips into one, then plug all sort of things into the outlets, and something eventually shorts out.
Consider that the permit thing is highly dependant on local regulations. When I lived in Salinas, CA, which is in Monterey County, I called both the city and the county when I was getting ready to wire the garage (I added a subpanel, half a dozen brakers, and a bunch of outlets). Both told me the same thing... no permits required since I was the homeowner and doing the work for myself.
-jav
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40 years of home ownership, a few different agents and insurance companies, no one has ever asked any questions or every looked at the house. Present insurer is The Hartford.
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wrote in message

This was the first time for me too however this insurance company is rated at about the top of the list of insurance companies as far as their ratings go. Very financially fit. Up until about a year ago I had never heard of Farm Bureau and their rates saved me a bundle on home and auto insurance with a 17 year old driver in the family. My father switched also and they came out and did the same pictures and questions with him too 6 months later.
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Leon wrote:

Which only proves that they are diligent in assessing their risk for underwriting purposes. They may also ask if you have a swimming pool, a dog, etc.
How many house fires do you see in the local news reports where the fire is attributed to "defective wiring." Ever follow up to see if the claims are paid? They are. In fact, you'll find that even claims arising out of fires where "suspicious origin" is indicated are paid.
Hell, they pay for those idiots who barbeque in the garage and set the garage on fire. Stupidity IS a compensable loss.
Peddle the insurance boogeyman elsewhere. It makes no sense to install wiring that is not up to code and safe but the fact that you do so without the specific intent to burn down your home or shop doesn't mean that your insurance company will not indemnify your loss.
Go find some cases where folks were denied coverage for their loss and bring it back. Since he's your agent and you had his phone number, maybe you could call him and ask him for some specifics that he's aware of. Should be a piece of cake, if it's not b.s.
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True however It would be short sighted to assume that if they found that the information that you give them to be wrong that they will still allow the claim.

I cannot say that I have heard of any fire claim being paid or denighed.

IIRC that falls under the definition of an accident.

Correct however there is no guarantee that the claim will not go the other way also.

When he questioned me about the wiring he specifically wanted to know if there had been breaker boxes added and if so had they been installed to code and inspected. I was a bit concerned because I had added some wiring myself. That was of no concern to him. Personally I have no doubts if mine and my fathers situation is BS or not. If you want, use the number I provided and let him answer your questions.
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Thank God! At last a traditional rec.woodworking topic instead of all that politcal/social commentary.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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wrote:

Manual says 40
Also I am planning basement shop and

Not an electrician, but I think it will depend on your use pattern (silmutaneous use and duty cycle). You need to lay it out, determine amp draw by each machine, where they will be located, how many you want on each circuit. The number of circuits and the protection required for each individual circuit will size your subpanel and your sub panel main breaker. room for expansion a good idea. I did not, regretted it later.
if you are not comfortable doing the above, suggest strongly you hire an electrician. required some areas.

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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:23:53 -0600, Frank Boettcher
Thanks for the input. I have 200 amp service to home and thinking of making subpanel 80 amps. Is that about right.
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Until last week, my shop's sole electric supply consisted of two 12/2 wires ran 80 ft. from the main. One circuit for lighting and one for all the machines. As I've acquired a number of new power hungry machines this last year, I decided to upgrade the electric service as well. I was only going to run 60 amp, but ended up with 100 amp. The price difference for the wire (6awg vs. 2awg both direct burial) was $.20 more per foot so the 100 amp (2awg) service cost me about $16 more for an 80 ft. run. Worth the money to go with 100 amp if you are doing an upgrade. Wire total was just over $100. The sub panel came from Lowe's. It is a 100 amp. "workshop panel" and came with the main breaker and 4 circuit breakers for $54. I did my own wiring, but if you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable working with electricity, please call an electrician. good luck --dave
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Beats me. What does the owner's manual say?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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David, I cut and pasted from an old post to save typing. I've had no problems with my setup.
I just finished wrestling with that very issue. I became the unexpected owner of a 5 HP Single Phase Unisaw and had to figure out how to wire it. In a phone call to Delta's technical people, they told me: 1. Delta's 5 HP motor draws 100 Amps for about 1.5 seconds at startup. 2. A 30 Amp "slow trip" breaker will hold it, but they are more expensive and hard to find. (Home Depot never heard of 'em.) 3. A 40 Amp breaker will hold it fine, and that is what Delta recommends.
I sought advice from a couple of Electrical Engineers at work. They assured me that: 1. The NEC allows a 40 Amp breaker on #10 wire IF the wire is only feeding an electric motor that is hard-wired, AND there are no other loads on the circuit. 2. It's not unsafe to run such a setup, because the motor's internal overload switch will protect the motor itself. The only other catastrophe would be a direct short, and the #10 wire will carry enough amps to trip the 40 Amp breaker before the wire overheats.
The information presented above is hearsay. I am not a licensed electrician, nor an electrical engineer. Check local codes before installation. Void where prohibited. Your mileage may vary. Free advice is worth what you pay for it.
My earlier post drew lots of flames from people who claimed to know the code and that it can't possibly allow a 40 amp breaker on a #10 wire. I looked it up and quoted the NEC extensively in a later post if you want to google search for donkeyhody and unisaw. BUT, if you have an inspector to satisfy, it may not be worth the trouble since it's an obscure exception. HE may not be aware of the exception.
#8 wire is not that much more expensive, but I already had the #10 run, so it was worth checking for my application.
DonkeyHody "We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." - Mark Twain
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As far as protection for the motor itself. There's a whale of a difference in what's reasonable for a motor running continuously, at near its rated capacity, unattended and one that's loaded (usually briefly) by someone standing right there. If I ever hear of anyone manually feeding a Unisaw and burning out a 5HP motor with or without built in overload protection, I'll eat my words without ketchup or mustard.
bob g.
DonkeyHody wrote:

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