Cabinet Door Build - Recommendations From Painter

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I hate painting.
I am trying to decide if I want to paint the 20 shaker doors and 5 drawer f ronts that I am building or to have the painting done professionally.
I hate painting.
I called the local paint store that I use and asked for some recommendation s for painters to get some estimates and find out what kind of prep they wo uld like before I dropped off the doors, etc. I figured it's early in the b uild process and there may be things that I should be aware which might mak e the painting process easier (and cheaper).
I just want to pass along his recommendations for others to consider/commen t on.
I hate painting.
The paint store recommended 2 local companies. I called the first one and t hey said that they are in the process of moving and referred me to the othe r company that the paint store had also recommended. I think that's a good sign.
I called the owner and had a lengthy conversation with him. When I told him I was building the doors with poplar frames and MDF panels, the first thin g he asked me was where I was in the build process. All I have done so far is cut the rails and stiles to width. No grooves, no joinery, no panels. He was glad to hear that. He then made the following build recommendations to get the doors ready to be painted:
1 - He is a big fan of Space Balls for any kind of frame and panel door, ev en when using MDF panels. (belt)
2 - He recommended pre-priming the panels to ensure that no portion of the blank panel will ever show if something moves (suspenders). He said that if I chose to work with him, he will then recommend a primer which will work with whatever finish/color we decide on.
3 - He recommended block sanding the sharp edge of the grooves to create a slight chamfer. This will create space to accept the paint and prevent brid ging between the frame and panel for a sharper transition.
4 - He recommended dry hanging the doors, drilling the holes for the handle s, etc. before bringing them to be painted. It would be a shame to find out that they needed to be altered after they were painted.
The next step is to send him a picture of my prototype door and a list of s izes in order to get an estimate.
I am pretty impressed so far. He shared a wealth of information and in a fr iendly yet professional manner.
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"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

It sounds like he's actually done this before... and understands the issues. That is a far different experience from what a friend of mine experienced last year. He hired a painter with over 20 years experience who did in fact get paint on the cabinets... that is the best I can say for the job... I'd give your guy a shot!
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On 2/4/2015 9:09 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I hate painting. I "eased' the sharp edges of the frames for 8 doors. I just sprayed primer on the panels.
I like the advice your painter offered. ;-)
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Jeez...somebody who knows what he is doing...
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dadiOH
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On 2/4/2015 10:09 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

For sure if you have any sharp edges you want to ease them with a pass or two with sand paper. Paint adheres better to a flat or rounded surface than a sharp edge.
AND be sure your doors are the correct size for their locations so you don't have to have another repainted should you have to tweak one.
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On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 6:15:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

er fronts that I am building or to have the painting done professionally.

tions for painters to get some estimates and find out what kind of prep the y would like before I dropped off the doors, etc. I figured it's early in t he build process and there may be things that I should be aware which might make the painting process easier (and cheaper).

mment on.

nd they said that they are in the process of moving and referred me to the other company that the paint store had also recommended. I think that's a g ood sign.

him I was building the doors with poplar frames and MDF panels, the first thing he asked me was where I was in the build process. All I have done so far is cut the rails and stiles to width. No grooves, no joinery, no panels . He was glad to hear that. He then made the following build recommendation s to get the doors ready to be painted:

, even when using MDF panels. (belt)

the blank panel will ever show if something moves (suspenders). He said tha t if I chose to work with him, he will then recommend a primer which will w ork with whatever finish/color we decide on.

e a slight chamfer. This will create space to accept the paint and prevent bridging between the frame and panel for a sharper transition.

ndles, etc. before bringing them to be painted. It would be a shame to find out that they needed to be altered after they were painted.

of sizes in order to get an estimate.

a friendly yet professional manner.

As noted in the fourth item of his recommendation: Dry hang the doors, dril l all holes, fix what needs to be fixed, take 'em down and label them.
In my case, it would be best to label them before I take them down. ;-)
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On 2/5/2015 8:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Yeah! That too! LOL
I hate having to redo anything especially hang, unhang, and rehang a door. And with a painted door you just about triple the chances of dinging the finish if you mount it in the wrong place.
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Smart man, great advice. Make sure you give him the work, and then recommend his ass all over town.
Smart people who offer great customer service are not as common as they used to be. Cherish the ones you find.
djb
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³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes
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On 2/4/2015 10:09 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Man knows what he is talking about. Next thing is does he walk the talk, and judging from the referrals, that is probably the case.
When painting wood, 90%+ of an excellent paint job is in the prep, before a can is ever opened.
Pretty much can guarantee that when you get two or more bids on a paint job, the lowest will be the one with the least amount or prep built-in to the bid price, and which will always be obvious in the final product.
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On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 8:46:39 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

I know it's all based on location, location, location, but if you were to toss out a real rough price per door to prime, paint and paint, assuming the vast majority of the prep work was done by me, where would you land?
1 -- $20 - $30 per door? 2 -- $30 - $40 per door? 3 -- $40 - $50 per door? 4 -- $50 - $60 per door? 5 -- More?
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On 2/5/15 7:46 AM, Swingman wrote:

Ain't that the truth. I think your 90% estimate is dead on. The actual painting takes 10% or less of the time spent on the entire process... if great results are required.
People think it's so easy and there's no skill or talent involved. They buy the cheapest paint and the cheapest brush and go at it and wonder why it looks crappy or wonder why someone charges so much to paint something.
You know what else I've found? Painting doesn't cover up imperfections as most people would think. No, painting *highlights* imperfections. If you missed a spot that wasn't sanded smooth, you'll find out after painting it, that's for darned sure.
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-MIKE-

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On 2/5/2015 10:38 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Start another kitchen remodel next Monday, so, faced with some interim down time, checked the weather and decided spur of the moment to head to the lake house in AR, at 10AM yesterday.
Me and the pup were on the road by 10:35. 7 1/2 hours later, Hot Springs. Helluva lot colder than Texas.
What did I come up here to do? fark'in PAINT.
... the damned face frames that I left with primer back in late October; and touch up the doors and drawer fronts while I had the paint brush in hand. Rolled up the drop cloth and cleaned up just before I typed this.
Too bad it's too cold to fish...
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On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

It's never too cold to fish.
This was taken about a mile from my house (no, it's not me):
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/fishingonthebay_zps6c62893d.jpg
This is not me nor near me, but it looks a bit warmer:
http://www.hinzie.com/writer/media/image/50631.jpg
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On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 10:38:38 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

Monday I will be firing the latex slinger I hired to repair walls and paint the interior of a house I am remodeling/repairing. If he can't hang latex to my satisfaction, he can't shoot finish on cabinets.
Prep is a huge part of painting, but so is experience, technique and knowle dge. With that in mind, I am refinishing the cabinets in the kitchen. I w ill pull all the doors, fill all the holes, clean them with TSP, and let th em sit for a day or two. I will clean them out with a blower on my compres sor, then let them sit another day to let the dust settle inside the now va cant house.
Next day, spray them with a deglosser/lacquer thinner mist. Clean the gun, then immediately shoot all surfaces with BIN (deglosser has a short life s pan). Then apply two coats of SW quick dry industrial enamel according to specs. Reshoot any surfaces as needed based on paint gloss reflectivity.
Install new hinges on doors and then install on cabinet frames. Adjust for alignment. Done.
I estimate all jobs based on prep and post work, rarely on actual spraying. I do so much prep that spraying is easy for me, and a nice break from all the tedium. Kitchens are the most difficult and tedious, and while I have done quite a bit of them, no one really wants to pay for the above processe s.
I saw it with my own eyes on one of those "handy M'am" shows, they used a s pray detergent cleaner like 409 to degrease, the sanded the center of the d oors and painted over the factory lacquer finish
WITH A SMALL ROLLER WITH LATEX PAINT.
All details that couldn't be properly coated with a roller full of paint li ke painting the hinges, inside the door panels, etc., were addressed with a throw away foam brush. She did warn though, that the job went better if y ou took the hardware off before slathering the surfaces with latex.
"Handy M'am" assured the homeowners that it was a great job, easy to do, an d could be done in a day. That fine job was roughly the equivalent of runn ing your car through a hand-free carwash, letting it dry, then painting it with rattle cans of Krylon from HD. It really lets a professional know wha t they are up against when pricing a job like that.
Robert
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On 2/7/15 4:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

What sprayer are you using these days?

That's a perfect way to describe it!

You paint cabinets to last a generation or two... or three. Unfortunately, most people only care that the paint lasts until they remodel again in 10 years or sell the house to whomever will remodel again.
Here's to more success in finding those clients who care about and covet the kind of quality you provide.
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-MIKE-

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On 2/7/2015 4:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
> "Handy M'am" assured the homeowners that it was a great job, easy to do, and could be done in a day. That fine job was roughly the equivalent of running your car through a hand-free carwash, letting it dry, then painting it with rattle cans of Krylon from HD. It really lets a professional know what they are up against when pricing a job like that.
On 2/7/2015 4:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

My landlord in Germany (day job was a dynamiter on Autobahn construction crews) also built the duplex we lived in at the time, we rented the second floor, he and his wife lived downstairs.
These were rural Bavarians (village of Darshofen) who took an inordinate amount of pride in everything they did.
I have yet seen anyone hand paint a house like these folks did, inside and out. Done entirely with a brush, the walls, and especially the trim work, was masterfully done, simply superb ... basically you have to see it to believe what they accomplished. The door and window trim had a depth to the finish like nothing you would see over here.
There was an Austrian painter here in Houston about ten years ago who did similar work. Talked to him a few time, but never got to use him on a project before he retired.
There's painters; and then there are folks who are masters of the art of painting.
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The house in which I was born and grew up was built in 1880. The finish on the kitchen cabinets was still good the last time I saw them circa 1978.
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On 2/8/2015 5:43 AM, dadiOH wrote:

That is amazing.... but keep in mind that while 1978 seems a long time after 1880, the cabinets are now almost 40% older than the last time you saw them.. ;~) It would be interesting to see how they look now.
A few weeks ago I rebuilt a child's toy baby doll crib. It was really odd, some parts were not symmetrical some were. It certainly had to go back together they way it came apart. Anyway the finish was failing and to the point that it instantly loaded up sand paper on my drum and finish sanders.
A side note here, I turned the speed of my Festool finish sander down to the lowest speed and I absolutely had no more problems with the paper loading. I probably sanded with one piece for 30 minutes while at the high speed the paper was loaded in less than a minute.
Any way the crib was brought to me mostly in pieces and had mud from dirt dobers nests on many of the pieces. And I refinished with a "candle light" color stain.
After returning the rebuilt crib I learned that this crib was built for this early 30 something girls grandmother, by the grandmothers grand father. I'm guessing that the crib was probably built some time in the 50's or 60's.
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On 2/8/2015 8:41 AM, Leon wrote:

Oops! Make that the 20's or 30's
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On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 4:24:15 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I can't remember the name of the gun... Meyer, perhaps? It is a $125 knock off of a Binks HVLP that was recommended to me by the local paint equipmen t store. I bought it to shoot primer, but like the finish it left so much I use it now for everything. It has a 20 oz top cup, 1.2mm needle size, an d works great for oil based products.
I shoot the BIN unthinned, and hit the SW product about 10% with thinner un less in the dead of summer.

It's awful though, when you think about it. Not every client is some tight wad smartass that thinks they know better than you. They are trying to do something good, trying to do something for themselves, then some moron come s along and tells them how do to it completely wrong. Yes, they can do the ir cabinets in a day, but they are ruined after that. The amount of work i t would take to do anything besides layer on more latex would make it cheap er to replace the cabinets altogether.

I appreciate that, and back at you! It has been increasingly hard to find folks that want you to "do it right". Even most of my well heeled clients seem to be in dollar saving mode these days, and have been for some time. "Good", is good enough. The sad thing is that most folks these days have n o idea of what to expect quality-wise, so unless the finished job is awful, they have no idea what they are looking at.
Robert
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