Building a fence - Nailer?

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SWMBO wants a fence.
Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter.
Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.
Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be.
Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.
I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.
I have a compressor with plenty of hose to get to the fence so...
What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?
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"Limp Arbor" wrote in message
SWMBO wants a fence.
Phase one is done - cutting down all of the pine trees that died over the winter.
Phase two is done - SWMBO telling me I'm an idiot for not making the neighbor pay me for his trees I cut down and paid to have chipped.
Phase three is done - found the property markers and roughed out where the fence will be.
Phase four is done - Priced out the pressure treated lumber.
I am going with a board-on-board or shadowbox fence with the 5/8x6" dog eared pickets. So my plan is to run three 8' 2x4s between each post laying flat so the rails are flush with the posts. Then use six nails per picket to put up the pickets. With 160' of fence I'll need about 400 pickets and 2,400 nails.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- May I make a few suggestions? Going to anyway. :~)
I would absolutely run 3 rails however I would and have many times in the past run the top rail on top of the posts to protect the tops of the posts from water and to help prevent bowing in and out from the line of posts. I would also suggest a treated 1x6 rot board run at the bottom of the posts on the post faces. This will prevent the pickets from setting in the morning dew every day and prolong the life of the bottoms of the pickets. Stand the pickets up on that board. That board also really really speeds up picket installation. No string line to putz with.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind/brand of gun do I need and what kind of nails/staples?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I inquired about this with Nailshooter several years ago about the same thing. He suggested an N88RH Bostitch. It is relatively inexpensive has/had a great warranty and I have had absolutely no problems with it so far. A wide variety of nails are easy to come by.
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-------
I agree with Leon on the three 2x4 approach, and the top rail being attached directly to the posts. When I built our last one I used galvanized hangers to hang the lower two 2x4's also oriented horizontally (flat), and they installed pretty quickly.
My personal preference for attaching pickets is coated deck screws. They can be purchased in color to, more or less, match the wood. I used a Makita driver and once I got the rhythm down, they went in pretty quickly; and I installed with the heads just slightly recessed. But then I have never installed planks with a nailer. Might work great.
A hint, if you haven't thought of it: Cut a 4 or 5 foot length of 2x4 or scrap. Pound a #16 or #20 framing nail into the same face, about 4-5 inches from each end and clip off the heads. Once you get your first picket plumb, you can use this simple tool to maintain a consistent gap between subsequent pickets. You still need to use the level to check plumb ever 4 to 6 boards, and make small adjustments, but this worked well. The framing nail will provides something like a 1/8" gap that might expand to 1/4" or more if your boards dry a bit.
RonB
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Limp Arbor wrote:

On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable. I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts.
If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
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The crown staples I have used all rust after a few years in the wood. Nothing looks worse than rust running down a board. I use them many other places but not on a rain exposed wood.
I built an all cedar fence once and the nails wouldn't stay in that wood if my life depended on it. The fance board ended up screwed to hold them.
Even the posts were so light they rose out of the ground about 2 inches every spring from the frost lift. So much for having posts over 4 feet deep below the frost line. They pounded back down each year easily enough, though.
-------------- "Gerald Ross" wrote in message
On my past fences I used screws. The last one I used 1/2" crown galvanized staples and It was much faster and has been just as stable. I would go with 1/8" spacing--just to have a little leeway to adjust for plumb when needed. The pickets will shrink and the gap will always get larger with time. I usually lay a 2 x 4 on the ground to rest the pickets on, then remove it. Soil seems to build up under a fence, and once it touches the fence rot starts.
If you worry about dogs digging under the fence, dig a shallow trench between posts under the fence line and fill it with sackrete. This also helps keep weeds from popping up under the fence. If your sprinkler wets one side of the fence the boards will warp DAMHIKT.
--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA
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LA:
I haven't checked the wind loading on a shadowbox arrangement but I think it will be quite low, so there should be no problem there.
Spacing in front will be a factor in the above and determine how much--or if-- someone can see into your yard on a diagonal perspective. I'd use screws Others have discussed options.
Depending on how long you intend to grace the planet with your presence, own the property or the wetness in you climate, you may want to think on the heavier-duty, metal U post hangers to fix the posts in concrete. You balance the additonal outlay against your use. Whatever you do, taper the concret down and away from any installet elements for drainage.
Certain HD stores also stock plastic-wood composite pickets in russet and faded green. No painting allowed and termites forbidden. They're about a dollar to half that again more than natural competition. If they weigh less and you check out the other specs, it might earn a pondering.
As to nail guns, a great warranty and good reviews would be more significant to me than grand praise and a short guarantee. If you buy a gun from some independents, they will sometimes make you a good package deal when you buy a large nail order concurrently, hoping you'll be in every week for more nails. But, check around.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 17:18:40 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"

I'd think they'd have nearly the same loading as the solid fence, say 90% as a WAG.

Cat/rat/coon/possum/ferret-friendly fences.

If I were building a fence for myself today, I's use steel set into concrete to hold the posts proud of the ground altogether. Today's PT lumber is pure SHIT. The treating only goes 1/8" into the wood, and any cut exposes untreated timber to the elements. Then they did away with the brown-dyed preservative and made it illegal to color or concoct your own brew for the same use. Goddamned EPA...

They're all 2 to 3 times the weight of kiln dried lumber, Ed.
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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LJ:
Though nothing is at hand to detail the point, one time I put up a fence where the goal was to minimize backside air turbulence on a space "roofed" by shade cloth. A treatment turned up that dicussed various design alternatives in terms of numbers and dispersion patterns that were comprehensive and surprisingly different, pivoting around things like seemingly minor changes in paling spacing. It was impressive. I obeyed. And it paid off like a charm. That experience implies the data for something more mainstream like wind load will be out there. Whether that is important to the OP's location... who knows?

Not to print the name of "rattlesnake" in that company.

Ditto. Ditto. Before I went metal, I paid a visit to the local Parks and Recreation people after observing them using substantial brackets and heavy angle with bolts on posts. A kind man said their failure rate--if not allowed to rust--was a number you could count in percent with a few fingers. That's in an abusive, public environment. Sure, it's another 5-6 or so frogskins a post. The alternative method tolls a bit more for replacement.
Another factor is to cure the concrete for as long as you can against shrinkage and cracking. Don't load it for awhile. Try to avoid hot weather when pouring. Cover it with an absorptive cloth. Put a gallon jug of water on it with some weeping pinholes and wet it periodically if that is called for. It's a drag. But that will be the end of it.

Good to know, Larry.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 23:15:38 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"

Cool. I'm happily living in an average 3mph wind area. Every time I go up to the mountains, I remember why I don't want a hilltop home. It's too bloody windy up there!

We may be hearing that from him soon.

Yeah, those fences are snake-friendly, too.

Yeah, park fences take a helluva lot of abuse.

I always give fence posts at least a couple days to cure. Ideally, a week would be better, but try to tell that to the lady who wants a fence up around her kids.

I'm glad my clients are too cheap to use that stuff.
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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Nailer? . . I hardly know her!
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On Thu, 12 May 2011 16:15:20 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

When has that ever stopped ya? Usually, it's better that way. No gnawing off of the arm to get away when you sober up and wake in the morning, eh? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knowwhatImean?>
-- If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do. -- Samuel Butler
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wrote:

An acquaintance of mine stated: "I have never gone to bed with an ugly woman, but sure have woken up with some..."
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Limp Arbor" wrote:

Unless you want to be a slave to a wooden fence, build it out of reclaimed HDPE.
Here is one source in Green Bay, WI.
http://tinyurl.com/y976voo
Lew
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Have to find a way to create a sliding mount for the horizontal supports for the fence boards. Doesn't that stuff expand about 2 inches in 5 feet in the sun?
LOL
------------
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
Unless you want to be a slave to a wooden fence, build it out of reclaimed HDPE.
Here is one source in Green Bay, WI.
http://tinyurl.com/y976voo
Lew
------------- Limp Arbor" wrote:

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On Wed, 11 May 2011 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor

Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws, not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if) they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which is even more expensive.
If you do go with nails, they'll rust and discolor the fence unless you buy stainless nails. If you go with a brad nailer and stainless brads, the first kid who tries to climb over it will accidentally pull off a board. From then on, more will come down for wholesale access.
I'd be perfectly happy to use a HF 15ga gun with stainless brads (not available from HF) if I were to make the mistake of nailing up a fence.
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message wrote:>SWMBO wants a fence.

Ideally, you'll want an impact driver and coated or stainless screws, not nails. They allow for easy removal and replacement as (not if) they're destroyed. It's a bit more expensive and time consuming, but the advantages outweigh those, unless you're painting the fence, which is even more expensive.
Cant say that I have ever seen a fence where the posts and rails did not need to be replaced when the picket did. Typically the post and rail may look OK but they are not going to out last the second round of pickets. Better to simply replace every thing and nail it all up cause you might as well not invest more time than necessary considering it will all have to be replaced.
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Couldn't agree more. Gone are the days of wooden fences lasting 20 years or more. I put a standard three rail fence, and if I can get them to spring for the dough, I use the metal posts and brackets. However, sometimes the neighbors don't like the looks (not everyone lives in the country) so they want all wood.
I get the best pickets I can from a cedar supplier here in town. They are a bit more expensive, but in the end cost about the same as the standard junk you buy as the waste goes down quite a bit.
I shoot them on with galvanized ring shanked nails, with the gun set to slightly sink them. They don't pull out. When replacing a picket, the cedar picket will come off, but the nails remain. I tap them in, and put on a new one with a hand driven 6d cold galvanized ring shank.
I don't have the time, the inclination, or see the benefit of the extra effort or cost screwing a fence together.
But then again, that's just me. YMMV.
Robert
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wrote in message
Robert I think that once the typical "screw" person replaces a fence he build 20 years prior he sees the light. ;~) I have screwed a couple of 8' sections to close the gap between property lines and the house in the front but after learning that you very seldom get away with just replacing the pickets the screw idea is way over thought, or under thought.
Ditto the galvanized ring shank nails on every thing.
I assume you use the round metal posts, thinking chain link, what diameter posts are you using? The normal post or do you use the terminal sized posts. I'm thinking the terminal posts.
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I took some PT 2x6 decking up a few years ago that had been screwed down. Heads breaking off and spinning freely were a common happening. Some pieces would come off with a large prybar, but others had to be cut off.
I'd expect the same thing to occur with a fence.
Puckdropper
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I wouldn't. Fencing is mostly vertical construction,water drains quite well and snow sheds, unlike a deck. Look at frequency of staining required.
--
"Puckdropper" wrote in message
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