Bracket Hardware from Lee Valley

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Bill wrote:

I decided to be "proactive" and tried to contact the bank. No email access. The phone number didn't allow me to connect with a customer representative. Happy day. I will strive to make a point of sharing my opinions about this one way or another. Maybe our motto should be: People have rights too! The "customer agreements" get longer every year. So long, that it's not practical to even read most of them. I do not think the new policy will help make the world a better place. Maybe I'll short them $5 on my next deposit, and see whether they correct it or not... : )
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On 2/2/2016 9:03 AM, Bill wrote:

Corporations generally have a right to do business as they see fit ... or in a manner, no matter how stupid or ill advised, that they can get away.
The customer only has a right to take their business elsewhere, so far.
The problem, as you are experiencing, starts soon after you get government involvement.
Works briefly in your favor, then you idiots allow your elected representatives to sell you out and you eventually get the phenomenon know as "regulatory capture" ... always to the detriment of the consumer.
The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as cable and internet providers.
--
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On 2/2/2016 9:51 AM, Swingman wrote:

Precisely the uneducated running a machine that they are ill qualified to do. Obama Care for example. If politicians and or management government workers were worth anything they would have real jobs.
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Exactly. Once you give the government power, it *will* be used against you.

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On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:51:50 -0600, Swingman wrote:

And you assume they'd get better without regulation? What have you been smoking?
Government has been defined, correctly in my opinion, as a "necessary evil". There's a reason why it's necessary - if you can't grasp that, you live in a fantasy world.
--
It's turtles, all the way down!

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On 2/2/2016 12:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It is not so much the regulation being the problem as the entity that is regulating it. So effectively the regulation is a wash at best, you "get on paper" from the regulation and loose money from the inefficiency, incompetency, bureaucracy, and corruption of the regulator/enforcer.
It would be far better to be regulated by a private entity.
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On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 18:17:34 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Yes, in fact, I think they would get better. There would be more competition for my business.

It's only necessary for a very few functions that can't be done any other way (almost entirely safety related).
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On 2/2/2016 12:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Enjoyed that $9,513.75 that came out of the taxes that you _personally_ paid since 2008 that went to bail out the second most government regulated industry in existence, not to mention all that interest you get on your savings, and the fees you get soaked with, eh?
"Fantasy world", indeed ...
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On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:08:43 -0600, Swingman wrote:

And perhaps you didn't notice that it was the *relaxation* of regulations that caused the banking/mortgage crisis?
And a lack of regulation that resulted in all those polluted Superfund sites? Competition didn't seem to have any effect there.
A long time ago, Will Rogers said we had the best government money could buy. Nothing has changed.
--
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On 2/2/2016 6:49 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

And all this time we thought it was the government guaranteeing loans to those that absolutely did not qualify but because they could not keep up with the Jones the government said give it to them anyway.

And again, let the private sector do the policing because no one is proud of the results when the government jumps in the deep end.
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What about things like the Staggers act? Regulation was sifleing the railroads and relaxation of certain regulations allowed them to become competitive and healthy.
Relaxing and implementing regulations is an ax. You can do surprisingly good work with it, but you can also cut off the very thing you need to survive.
Puckdropper
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On 2/2/2016 6:49 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

Reading comprehension with the term "regulatory capture"?
Look it up, learn something, and leave the fantasy world behind ... it's reality.
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On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 00:49:57 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Nonsense. It was government meddling that caused the crisis. Fannie and Freddie were dead-center in that mess.

Much of that wasn't known at the time.

Oh, yes it has! It's gotten *much* larger. ...and even less competent.
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This is kind of a naive view. It fails in two ways, one because it ignores the reality of monopolies and collusion (so that it's not always possible to "take one's business elsewhere"); and the other because a business's profit motive generally doesn't align with the public's desire for a clean and safe environment.
In an ideal world, regulation would exist only in so far as is necessary to provide "an even playing field", where competing businesses all had the same safety and enviromental standards (so none had an advantage), and all truely did compete (so the customer had a fair choice). In practice, governments are not very good at identifying those boundries, and inertia tends to keep regulations in place long after the need for them has passed (by the same token, inertia tends to prevent regulation being put in place until well after the need first appears - something of a closing the barn door after the horse has left effect).
Anyone interested in the subject would be well advised to study the history of railroad regulation (since that was the first industry regulated) from the creation of the ICC to the Staggers act of 1980 that deregulated it (about 30 years after the need for regulation had ended).
John
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On 2/3/2016 2:26 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Jeezzus, you guys can run rabbit trails ...
Most here are well aware of the necessity for some form of "regulation", what it entails, and the history thereof, and certainly don't need preaching to in that regard.
My post specifically stated a reality of regulation in today's world, that being "regulatory capture", perfectly manifested in the examples I gave,
The only naivete exhibited thus far is in the disregard of that very real phenomenon, and ignoring the subject totally in irrelevant epistles.
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On 02/03/2016 11:51 AM, Swingman wrote:

This is a woodworking newsgroup. Around here we follow rabbet trails.
...Kevin
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Kevin Miller
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On 2/3/2016 3:01 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:

Decided not to go there ... no telling where that would lead. ;)
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says...

Not gonna happen until we start making corporate executives respect people. As long as nerdhood is the ticket to success that's not going to happen--used to be we taught people to be team players, now we don't unless they're "jocks".

We do. Go down to the library and look at the US Code sitting on the shelf (don't read it online, look at it on a shelf--I want you to see the physical size of it). Quite a lot of that deals with "corporate entities".

A lot of that sort of thing could be easily fixed by requiring that any contract or change in a contract, in order to be valid, must be accepted actively and explicitly, not passively by continuing to use a service.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Well, they added it to their "terms of service" (I think). I may inquire at the local branch if they are going to *notify* customers of the discrepancies found on the occasion that they keep the extra money.
You can read the new policy at the top of the first page (paragraph 'A') below (you also be able to see that it's a "new policy"):
https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/checking/documents/deposit_account_agreement.pdf
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says...

Look on page 16:
"By maintaining your account after the effective date of any change, you agree to the change."
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