Beginning tool selection...

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wrote:

or even good 12" blades.. *groan*
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
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wrote:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but here is the truth. You have enough tools, you don't need to buy anymore. If you don't know that you need it, you don't need it. If you're happy with how your coffee table turned out then at this point the best way to allocate a limited budget is toward more wood to make stuff with. Have fun. Then when you run into situations where you find yourself running into the limitations of the tools you have then it's time to think about upgrading what you have to something more capable.

This would be first on my list to upgrade. I have one, and it needs to die.

Your dining table project is likely going to push this to its limits, but upgrading it is a want not a need.

Helpful for making crosscuts, especially when you have a small table saw, but you don't need one.

There are a surprising amount of times you'd like to make a straight hole in something. Quite a few of them it's *really* bad if it isn't straight.

Could be useful for some of the smaller projects you have on your list, but overlaps your band saw in capability.

Don't buy tools for perceived future needs. Soon enough you'll have more stuff on your wishlist than you could ever actually buy.
-Leuf
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Leuf wrote:

the scroll saw will be necessary, but likely I won't buy it until I actually start the project. Your comments about using the money are good I think, though I've already factored the wood cost into all of the projects and have a little extra for a new tool...hence my dilemma. Perhaps I'll wait a bit longer and save up for some better tools.
bkr
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bkr wrote:

It really depends on what tickles your fancy. As I suggested in a response to another post, a miter sled can work wonders. It is still comparatively hard to cut angles on long stock on a little saw, or on any table saw, even with all the sleds, hold-downs and other jiggery in the world. If you're doing a lot of angle cutting on stock 4' long or more a miter saw would probably become your bestest friend in a jiffy.
My drill press is the machine of a thousand uses. I use it to put holes in things. Big holes, little holes, through holes, stopped holes, multiple holes, rows of holes. The holes always come out clean, and they're always perpendicular to the surface of the work if I want them to be. I don't even have any sanding or rosette cutting attachments or other whatnots for the thing. Just a variety of drilling and boring bits. My drill press sees tons of use because I obviously have much need in life for a multitude of controlled holes. Countersunk screws, recessed bolt holes for jigs, dowel holes, and a gazillion other holes. If you don't have much need for holes, then a drill press isn't a lot of good to you. It's quite possible to do without one with a portable electric drill and some creativity. In fact, you need both anyway. I use my portable drill almost as much as my DP because sometimes it's necessary to take the drill to the work instead of the other way around.
My scrollsaw is almost completely useless to me. I just haven't been inspired to do much of anything with it at all. Other people spend the vast majority of their shop time scrolling away, and those folks would look at me like a weirdo for taking the position that those little machines are virtually useless. I think to some extent it's because I got a crappy one that doesn't work very well.
So what I'm getting at ultimately is that it really depends on you. I can't tell you which machine you will find most useful for doing a coffee table because I've never built a coffee table. What will you do for your next project? Well, that largely depends on which machine you buy, doesn't it? :)
In the end, it's about you, how you work, what you want to do, and what trades you're willing to make. For example, as I also mentioned in that other message, I don't have a planer. I can do without it using hand planes, but hand planes are a big can o' worms, and almost a hobby unto themselves. You can do without lots of things. I find the most annoying things to do without are a good, somewhat respectable sized table saw, and a floor-standing drill press. Those two would be the last to go in my shop, although I suppose the portable electric drill would be the absolute dead last thing to go. So that must be my favorite machine.
So I guess basically if I were you, I'd dump that 8" Makita for a decent contractor's saw and start there. But I'm not you.
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Silvan wrote:

than a 10" TS but this fell in my lap from a friend who won it and has no interest in woodwork. I figured I could keep it until it dies and then upgrade in size. I have access to a 10" and 14" anyway, so if I absolutely need a bigger one I can get to it, with only a little pre-planning.
I was expecting more people to give the answer "it depends" because honestly that's the situation most of the time. I just don't have enough experience to know all the versatility of each tool which is what I was hoping to hear about. I'm actually moved more to get the drill press now, since it doesn't take up as much space as some others and I can see a use for making mortises and such which I do quite a bit of (with a router bit on a dremel right now, which I don't much like.)
Thanks again,
bkr
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bkr wrote:

All 10" saws aren't created equal. My first one was a Skil 3400 that I got new for $50. It was worth $50, but not anywhere close to what those things usually sell for. When I went looking to upgrade, I tried to find a small saw that wasn't a piece of junk. I discovered I wasn't going to get by with a small saw, so now I have the deck from an aircraft carrier in my eency weency little shop. It's unwieldy to say the least.
I'd say most benchtop saws are about equally crappy, and I made some very nice things with mine. In fact, for various reasons, I haven't actually made anything of real substance with my new saw yet. Everything I have to my credit was done with a complete POS with a warped aluminum table. Or even less. I started off with nothing but an electric drill, a crappy B&D jigsaw and a miter box/backsaw. I got a Crapsman router with Depth Randomizer and Carbide Ejection System next. Big mistake.

Well, you just heard me raving about it, so I won't rave again. I really love my drill press. I traded my 10" benchtop for a 15" floor model after just one year, I think. Maybe two years. I love it. Yet there are folks here who are content with a crappy Harbor Freight 9" benchtop that they leave sitting in the corner most of the time.
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I would not buy a single tool at this point...
Pick a project....any simple project will do.... and run out to your shop and start making sawdust...
If you find you need a tool to complete that project then go out and buy what you need....Repeat the process many many times....
However I suggest that you start buying "good" tools tright from the start... Those tools you listed that you own now... may make you want to give up woodworking...
Enjoy...
Bob Griffiths .
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wrote:

Stop buying tools. Spend your money on timber instead.
Make things. Make a list of things to make. Make things off this list, and if you can't make one because you don't have a particular tool, then make something else off the list instead.
If you can't make _anything_ on your list because you're mising one tool, and it's under $100, and it's not electric, and it has existed for more than 30 years, then give up and go to bed. If you _still_ need it in the morning, then think about maybe getting it. Do something else in the meantime.
If a week later you still wake up thinking that you really need that grockle flanger, then buy one. Buy either a good modern version of it, or a usable old one. Never buy one in either Evil Cool Black Plastic (California's assault rifle ban does make some sense for woodworking tools), polished silver or dayglo orange plastic (dayglo is allowed for tape measures, but nothing else or you'll never find your tape measure), or one that has stripes on it. Never buy one that has "Pro" in the model name. Never buy one that _has_ a "model name". If your grandfather couldn't have gone into a toolshop and bought one by asking for a descriptive name, then you don't need it. You want a drill. Not a "Drilling System". Not a "Mecha-Force 2000 hole-r-izer". Never buy a tool that could get itself a bit-part in a Japanese giant-robot animation.
You do not need any tool with its capacity rated in "millions". They're lying.
Goddard and Townsend didn't have one. You don't need one either. The only time this doesn't apply is when it's a replacement for cheap apprentice labour, which they did have and you don't. Or rare earth magnets.
--
Smert' spamionam

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ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!

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Andy Dingley wrote:

I have to say, Andy, most of the time when I say I'm laughing, I'm not really laughing. It takes quite a lot to get me to laugh for real, and this one brought on a good one. I needed that.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I guess the consensus is build more stuff until you absolutely can't live without a particular tool. That is honestly what I was thinking until I actually started getting a couple of the power tools that have made my life much easier. I've always been of the mind that if people could build this stuff 150 years ago with hand tools, I must be able to do /something/ with the small selection of tools at my disposal. Thanks for reaffirming that.
By the way, this was some funny stuff. Hole-r-izer...that's brilliant.
bkr
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wrote:

Yes, power tools will make your life easier. You should have plenty of them, particularly a good table saw for turning big wood into small wood (for that's hard going by hand). "Plenty" is a pretty small number though. It's all too easy to get caught into the Big Shed marketing plans that tell you you just can't do anything without buying their new plastic gadget.
Most of us could use some better tools. Few of us really need more new ones. If you have to shop, get something you really need, and get the best one you can.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

again everyone for your comments and suggestions.
bkr
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wrote:

Of the three you mention, my vote would be for the miter saw. But the drill press is awfully handy as well- just make sure that you get a big enough drill press for your needs- the wife bought me mine, and while it works well, it won't accept a mortising attachment and leaves me wishing for a few extra inches of clearence fairly often.
If I were to just pick one from what you've said, though, I'd go for a decent (or even a cheap POS) router. The number one reason for I'd suggest that over any of the others is that you'll be able to make dadoes and rebates with it- something you probably can't do with a 8" table saw (my guess is that the arbor is too short for a dado stack, though Ryobi may have done better than Delta in that regard). and those are some awfully useful joints for all sorts of projects. Once you've got one, I'm sure you'll discover that it's one of the most versatile tools you have.
The other suggestion would be a biscut cutter- I don't have one, but I've used them in the past, and they are really very nice for jointing tabletops. You can do it with butt joints or dowels, but the biscut cutter makes things a little easier. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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A decent router package (I have the older PC690 kit) which will be about $200 and a decent saber saw (I have the Bosch) will be about $150 would be my choices.
HTH
Lew
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Prometheus wrote:

Wellllllllll... I just built a printer stand with dadoed shelves, and I don't have a dado stack or a working router. Or a suitable hand plane for that matter. About five kerfs, some chisel work, came out perfect.
Stopped dadoes are more fiddly though, such as a rabbeted box bottom on a piece where the sides aren't mitered. You either have a lot of weird fiddling to do to pare off the slopey curvy bits the blade didn't hog off, or else you have to go back and glue in little cheater pieces. Of course, you'd have the same exact problem with a dado stack, just with fewer kerfs.
Routers are good for this kind of stuff, I'll admit. Fast, easy. It's probably something I'll do with a router if I ever buy one that's more practical to use.
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Never overlook a jointer, even a small 4" one. Without flat square stock, you wil lalwaus have trouble.
What kind of work do you do, what kind of budget?
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On 18 Jan 2005 15:44:29 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (DarylRos) wrote:

============Have not followed this thread..
I only semi agree with you.... My 1st Joiner was a little 4 in POS....which I purchased for the very reason you gave,,,,BUT it really was completely useless... may have been sufficient if I only made birdhouses...
I would tell anyone to just wait until the budget could handle a 6" one...
Bob
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