aagh! how do you paint trim and get it flat smooth and shiney.?

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Any paint guru's out there? I'm screwing up.
OK - so I spent a *lot* of time molding and fitting some house trim (base boards, lots of window frame and trim, coving etc) in douglas fir. There are some simple flat and fairly broad sections that I wanted to get a decent paint job on. Can I get it right? Nope.
Problem is I can't get the paint to brush out without brushmarks and it looks like S&^te. Using beyr expensive white enamel gloss over the presecribed beyr enamel primer. New, decent bristle brush. Expected the wood to soak up a bit, which it does, but it leaves brushmark whether you put it on thin, roll and tip, lash it on or even thin it a little. Doesn't sand well at all - Seems to have a latex content that doesn't like the heat of sanding and rolls up or leaves an edge, it doesn't feather.
So whats the right technique to get a decent finish? local paint store guy says it has to be sprayed!
FYI, Left it unfinished for a few weeks in the house to adjust to the humidity. All looks good and almost no movement after install. Surface *was* very flat, smooth - sanded to 200 grit and looked pretty good until I painted it.. House is in FL so its still 80f and about 40% humidity.
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Ok, I hate to say this, but that I have never had any luck with the Behr stuff. Its home center hobby quality IMHO. If you want good I recomend Sherman Williams top end Alkid oil based enamel, or Pratt and Lambert.
New, decent bristle brush.
Like your paint, probably not good enough. I'd wo with a Wooster or Pritty brush.
Expected the

You may want to add a bit of thinner to your paint if using oil based.

WRONG! If the local paint store guy is the HomeDepot guy it says a lot abolut the Behr paint.

Should not be a problem. Don't go cheap on the paint or the brushes. Wide flat surfaces look good if rolled with the white closed cell foam rollers.
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Yeah, make Pritty, Purdy.
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There's also the question of brush "technique" but I wouldn't know how to teach it. It's something you get a feel for - or don't - eventually. Ask your wife to show you how she does her nails and that's a good start.
FoggyTown
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:11:18 GMT, "Leon"

I've had great results on trim with the P&L gloss and semi-gloss latex, sometimes with a tick of Floetrol added, applied with Purdy brushes.
I only use Floetrol in the summer, as it prevents the paint from drying too quickly and locking in brush marks. Read the directions on the Floetrol bottle.
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Mike,
I agree with the others. I have had excellent results with Sherman Williams oil acrylic...maybe thinned a little, and using Purdy brushes (there is no substitute for a good brush).
No problems with brush marks.
Skip www.ShopFileR.com

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All of the above is good info. Don't penny pinch on both paint & brushes. A painter once told me to start on the right of a project & brush into it. That's if you're right handed. Reverse procedure if you're a lefty.
Smitty
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Mike wrote:

1. Use a primer, sand smooth after drying
2. Never, ever use latex paint on anything where you want a lovely paint job. It shows brush marks and - as you discovered - doesn't sand. Yes, you can get a better result spraying but you still can't sand the stuff when it is time to redo.
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

Unless you know how. <G>
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B A R R Y wrote:

Aye, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. But can you sand it? :)
--

dadiOH
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dadiOH wrote:

Sanding IS tougher on latex, as you have to wait, and even then it still won't sand as well as oil base. A local painter taught me to always sand before painting, but that's usually on latex a few years old. Fresh latex is nearly impossible to sand. My usual surface prep (even for walls) is a a light zip-trip with a ROS and 150 grit, followed by a damp sponge. When I first heard the method, I thought it to be overkill, but I'm now convinced the sanding is worth it.
As far as application goes, the key is a really good brush, great paint, Floetrol, and technique. Latex dries fast, Floetrol slows it down so it can level better. To get a super-smooth latex finish, a "wet edge" needs to be maintained, working in small areas, brush the fresh paint back into the last applied paint, and don't over brush. In certain ways, latex brushes a lot like shellac or lacquer, two other fast drying finishes.
Avoid the temptation to "tip-off" the paint once it's down. If you've every tried to brush enamel in the sun, that's exactly what most folks do with latex. They try to brush "draggy" paint.
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I very seldom sand a prepainted latex surface. I typically always wipe the entire surface down with Liquid Sandpaper. That cleans the surface and softens the surface so that it readily takes fresh paint, latex or oil with out having a problem with peeling.
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:20:29 GMT, "Leon"

That's not why I sand. I never had paint peel before I sanded. <G>
The sanding removes the embedded grit, old roller ropes, drips, lumps, etc...
The sanding is so light, I can do a 14x14 room in less than 15 minutes using two Mirka discs. I kick a milk crate along to reach the top with 8 ft. ceilings, so I don't spend time moving a ladder. The sander is attached to the Shop Vac the whole time.
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wrote:

I have had latex peel when sanding.
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:57:26 -0600, "Leon"

A-ha! Different thing.
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Personally, I find Beyr to be a very poor quality paint. It doesn't take much air exposure before it starts to coagulate. To get good results, pour small quantities at a time. A beer party plastic cup makes a nice container. Seal the can while you paint from the cup. If it was me, I'd toss Beyr in favor of Sherwin Williams.
Jeff
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Hope you are using oil base enamel in a high gloss or semi glass. Thin to flow from a good quality brush (not wipe on) and you will have it! Good Luck Kenneth
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Digger wrote:

All true. Assuming he primed it first. *Especially* with Douglas fir as it telegraphs grain about as bad as anything I know because of the juxtaposition of hard/soft sections.
And sanding the wood is no cure as more soft wood then hard wood is inevitably removed. The primer not only removes the suction by the soft wood areas but fills the slight depressions in same created when sanding the bare wood; sanding the primer then gives the baby butt smooth surface necessary for the oil paint to shrink down to for a presentable finish.
--

dadiOH
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<snip>
If you are willing to pay the price, high build epoxy primer used to prepare a boat hull for two part linear polyurethane finish, will do the job.
Apply with either spray or brush, allow to cure, then sand smooth, and reapply as required.
Use whatever you like as a finish coat.
Lew
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replying to Mike, KH wrote: I wouldn't recommend spraying unless youre prepared to cover Everything in your house you don't want painted or covered in dust. My company rarely sprays trim except in new construction. Foam rollers work okay but leave a stipple instead of brush strokes. Better paint and better brush is my recommendation. Porter Permanizer dries relatively flat(meaning the brush strokes level out as it dries) the downside is it tends to run if applied too heavily because of the slow setup time. SW Solo works well also. An oil-modified latex might be your best bet. It behaves more like oil but with water cleanup. Has a longer setup time than traditional latex so you have more time to work it. No matter what base you use, oil or latex, keeping a wet edge and not over brushing is critical. Thinning your paint helps also but don't overdo it.
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