220 V table saws and ground

Page 7 of 9  
Robert Haar wrote:

... Sigh...
It's a 3-wire service dryer circuit in which the NEC previously allowed the 120V service neutral to be carried by the ground conductor.
For 240V service w/o the need for the neutral, yes, virginia there is no neutral.
This is/has been a sidebar conversation about the circuit Leon pigtailed off of to power his saw from the dryer outlet; hence it does have at the dryer connection a neutral for the dryer motor lights, etc., that uses the ground connector per the previous NEC exception that allowed such while it does serve as protective ground for the saw.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:27:44 -0600, the infamous "Leon"

The scary part of that is that it means your 4 homes don't have any kind of local grounding rods. It's all at the pole!
If I were you, I'd instantly run one.
Good news: when the temp hit 29 this afternoon, my water started running again! I'll leave the pumphouse light on during this cold snap, and run water when I get up in the middle of the night to run it in the other direction.
-- To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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"Larry Jaques" wrote:

==============================Shades of my youth.
A 100W light bulb hanging in the pump house is your friend in winter.
Also works when hanging beside the engine block.
Had a shallow well pump in a pit covered with a lift off, tar paper covered wooden roof.
First year the pump froze when it got cold.
After that, it was a light bulb in the pit and straw bales over the roof.
Problem solved.
Today, heat tapes are safer and more efficient.
Lew
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I wire two rubber sockets in series and use 200 watt bulbs, same amount of heat and the bulbs last a couple of seasons.
basilisk
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'll second Lew's recommendation for heat tapes.
I draw my water from the lake, 125' from the house. The line is under the ice in the lake and 6' under the ground to the crawlspace under the house.
I have more than a few places where the typically lowest -40 temps will freeze my lines, and all of those places are protected with tape. The beauty of tape is that it's not a single source of warmth like a light bulb. It's spread out over the length, which gives a lot of flexibility in directing the warmth from the tape. As well, it's never hot, just warm to the touch, which is enough to keep my lines clear but not enough to be a fire hazard.
Cheaper too. I can't recall the wattage on those lines but it's much much less than at 100 w. bulb, even with the 6-8 lines I run.
Tanus
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Not necessarily so. AAMOF, I'm fairly certain that Leon's electrical service entrance is grounded as per code, considering where he lives.
From his description the problem he was experiencing is typically a problem with the center tap connection on the secondary side of the service transformer, and should have nothing to do with whether his electric service entrance was grounded.
I saw this exact same scenario just recently when a new service transformer was improperly installed that was serving the area I was building in, and had just that day passed a rigorous final electrical inspection, including, of course, the proper grounding of the electrical service entrance.
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On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:55:33 -0600, the infamous Swingman

OK, I'll take your word for it.

Interesting. I'll bet the electrical company was embarrased.
I have my own personal transformer on the pole nearest my house, a little guy not much larger in diameter than the pole it's attached to. I lost power one day and went outside to see if one of the on-transformer breakers had blown. I saw one of the 17kv lines on the street, so I called immediately and they got a crew out here within the hour. I was up and running again within 4 hours.
-- To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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"Larry Jaques" wrote

I used to live across from an elementary school. As neighbors of the school, we would keep an eye on the school and report any suspicious activity. We called in a couple of things and some bad guys got caught.
Early one morning there was a big explosion. It rattled the windows for the whole block. I had a friend who was staying over the night and was sleeping on the couch in front of the window that faced the school. It knocked him off the couch. We were surprised that the windows did not break.
After a number of frantic 911 calls, the cops raced to the scene and looked everything over. They quickly found a charred, black feather under a power pole. They looked up and saw a transformer with the side blown out of it. A crow had got into the transformer and shorted it out. Needless to say, a couple feathers was all that was left of the crow. Apparently this was a common enough of a problem tht the police first check the power poles after the report of an explosion.
They had to shut the power down for the whole neighborhood for about six hours. And the utility company decided to start installing "crow resistant" transformers". But only after this happened many times. Who was the bird brain that didn't make the transformers "crow resistant" in the first place?
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On 12/15/09 6:22 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

It isn't just birds, I have personally seen a raccoon and a squirrel that got fried on transformers in two separate incidents.
The coon, was still alive, but rather disoriented.
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The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
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On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:33:00 -0500, the infamous FrozenNorth

Good question. Ditto the poles to which no bird perch board had been added after eagles were getting blown up. The dumb birds tried to nest in the insulators.

A few other, larger, animals find their way up there sometimes, too. This one didn't blow the transformer, though. ;) http://fwd4.me/8Y6
-- Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm). -----------
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message

One day, during my college years, I was walking back to the married student housing building from class. It was along a fairly busy street in KC. As I walked under a power pole, with transformer on it, there was a very gentle "fwwuummppp," sound, followed by a cascade of boiling oil falling onto the sidewalk. I'd just passed the pole and was not even splattered, though there were oil spots on the concrete within a couple feet of where I was standing.
I guess it just wasn't my time, and somehow God wanted me back at work rodding out clogged toilets with my electrical fish tape.
--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
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I'm rather glad we go in for underground cabling with large transformers serving a local area, at ground level, in secure cabinets, usually fenced, in the UK.
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"Stuart" wrote:

For the last 30+ years, residential developments have been built with pad mount transformers and underground distribution; however, for most of the 20th century, above ground distribution was the norm, thus there is a lot of above ground still in existence.
Lew
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this is highly location dependent. maybe in your area it is, but not around my locale.
blanket statements usually aren't.
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"charlie" wrote:

----------------------------------------------- Without question, the local often utility requires some nudging, usually in the form of legislation, to provide underground service in residential areas.
Utilities are not know for being on the cutting edge, at least the ones I've had contact with aren't.
YMMV.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

The Gulf Coast desperately needs a change to underground electrical infrastructure due to the historical and ever present hurricane threat.
In every house I build I try mightily to install an underground feed from the pole/line to the new service even though it adds +/- $1k to the cost, location and municipal building requirements permitting.
At least that way, if they ever stop talking about it and actually do it, these folks should be able to hook up at minnimum additional cost.
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In North Carolina, you would be hard pressed to NOT find a underground service. They made that the standard here well over 30 years ago.
Swingman wrote:

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Pat Barber wrote:

> In North Carolina, you would be hard pressed to NOT > find a underground service. They made that the standard > here well over 30 years ago.
Then you have much better politicians then we have ... assuming that there is such a thing as a "better politician", of course? :)
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Naaaw...we got the same bunch up here you got.
I'm not sure exactly who got that thinking in place, but that's the way it's been for a very long time.
They are even taking down older aerial hook ups and putting them back with underground.
We have had our share of hurricanes in the Carolina's and the underground does pay off.
Swingman wrote:

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In the little town I live in (population 2000), all our power is on poles. The towns around us, one of which is butted right up against us, have underground systems. In the 17 years I have lived here, the longest we have ever lost power was about 20 minutes. Not so with the towns around us. They loose power for at least a few hours per year. One time, for two weeks in a certain section. I remember my boss coming in in a less than good mood for a couple of weeks when his power was out due to an ice storm. I lost a couple of antenna but I still had power. I'm not advocating above ground power. This doesn't make sense but I'm glad it has been that way.
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