Wiring question?

[al]

I'm a little stuck! I have a light in my kitchen which works fine. I want to add another light at the other end. To achieve this, I have been able to run cable from that other end back to the switch box for the original light. I cannot draw live feed from the ring as it is not accessible without destroying stuff!

I have tried connecting the cable from the new light directly into the back of the old one. However, this bridges the switch completely and creates a valid live circuit for the new light when the switch is off (curiously when the switch is on, that light goes out and the original light comes on - I thought the new light would always stay on?).

Anyway, saw the mistake there and tried adding a 2nd switch (both are 1 way switches). Ran a mini-cable common to common and L1 to L1. Still a similar effect to the first time, but with both switches.

How can I make this work so that either one switch makes them both come on together or two switches control them independently. The only live feed I can take is from the switch spur on the original light. Is this one botch too far?

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[Owain]

From where are you getting your neutral for the new light? And lighting circuits aren't rings, they're radials.

No, you are shorting the new light when the switch is on.

Your problem is not the live, it's the neutral. There is not normally a neutral at the switch, so you must take neutral (and switched live, because they *must* run in the same cable) from the ceiling rose of the original light.

Get yourself a good DIY electrics book with clear diagrams, as Usenet is a little limited in the visual illustration regard, and bear in mind (if you are in England and Wales) that electrical work in kitchens is covered by Part P of the Building Regulations, which means you must either get an electrician in or DIY and apply to the Council.

Owain

[Stefek Zaba]

If all you want to do is have a second light which comes on exactly when the first one does, you don't want to run a cable to the switch at all at all. The cable for the new light wants to run to the ceiling rose of the old light. There, you connect the earth to the earthing terminal where all the existing earths go; the black to the existing black-wire(s) and blue-light-flex terminal; and the red to the existing brown-light-flex and single maybe-red maybe-black-which-should-have-a-bit-of-red-sleeving-but-won't terminal.

And do get a decent book - the Collin's D-I-Y manual's pretty sound - to get your head round the basics of house electrics. If you start feeling unsure, get an electrician in - it's really not a good idea to stuff about when you're as unsure which way is up as you seem to be...

Stefek

[al]

My problem is accessibility. If I could get to the junction box (wherever in the ceiling that may be - there is no rose for the original light - just two wires coming out of the ceiling), then I could wire it up fine and understand it fine.

I guess my lack of understanding here is with the status of the neutral, or return live. If I understand correctly, this cable is merely a looped continuation of the live feed to the original light's live terminal, allowing for a break in the circuit - the actual neutral in question being directly connected to the light. Does that sound about right? And if that is the case, I am buggered I presume unless I want to start drilling holes?

One other vague possibility. Beside the switch for the original light, there was a blanking plate. When I took it away, there were 3 twin & earth cables coming in that all appear to be dead (presumably have been chopped somewhere along the line). If one of the neutrals were by some chance still connected back to a "real" neutral, would that be safe to use along with the live from the switch?

Other alternatives ... bring power from the socket ring-main up to the ceiling for that light? Not ideal, but safe if it's a fused connection??

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a

[al]

Funnily enough I have just that book and understand perfectly how to do it under normal circumstances. What I'm trying to do here is cheat so as to not damage walls/ceilings ... :o(

a

[bigcat]

(curiously when

you just made a mistake in which wires you conencted to, thats all. Conncet to the same onse that go to the bulb and all wil be well.

NT

[bigcat]

Sounds typical of an ancient install. How old is it?

If you have no earth feed on the lights, your new lighting will not meet modern safety regs. You can make that aspect ok by using only plastic or double insulated fittings and plastic screws in any added plastic switch faceplate, but it would never pass a safety inspection as it will not meet current gregs.

NT

[BigWallop]

Try reading through this:

to see where you're going wrong.

[John Rumm]

If you opened up that hole a couple of inches, would that solve your problem?

Yup spot on. The cable to the switch carries live down, and live back.

Yup, 'fraid so.

Not unless you can be sure that the nutural returns to the same circuit that is feeding the lights.

Can be done. Simplest would be if you could get new light feed to same location as current light. You could open up a small hole in the ceiling (or lift a floor board in the room above perhaps?) large enough to get some crimped connections through to join the new wire to the old and the drop to the light pendant.

[Rob Morley]

What does your manual have to say about plastering ceilings? ;^>

[al]

a

[al]

Unfortunately not, it's on the other side of the kitchen, through an arch. No clean way of bringing the cable over. No access to ceiling from above either, it's on an extension. The tiled roof above it has no access.

Again, couldn't bring the cable over. What would I physically need to buy (in terms of safely and permanently fusing it) if I ran a spur from the mains ring to it?

a

[Christian McArdle]

Step away from the tools. Call an electrician.

Christian.