Wills and executors

[Harry Bloomfield]

My partner has just sadly passed away, so obviously I'm in a bit of a spin. She owned the house and contents, much of which is a result of the time and money I invested in it over the decades.

Decades ago, she had her will via her solicitors was drawn up so as I would inherit the house and contents entirely, but we never married and there was never any official formal arrangement.

This, as I anticipated it would, has come back to bite me. There were rows at the time over her having her will written without discussing it with me first. Unfortunately a very stubborn lady.

I am a named executor, along with two of the solicitors. The solicitors are rubbing their hands over the likely admin fee, though they did suggest I could do it all myself - but it would take months and I would need to organise Probate. Probate forms look to be straight forward enough.

Her main life cover paid out surprisingly, with just a phone call - the cheque in my name turned up yesterday. For a second much smaller policy a different insurance company - they want a form filled in, a copy of the will, a death certificate and names signatures from the three executors.

The solicitor refused to sign the document, I suspect they are trying to have me over a barrel and force me to use them, but the law seems to be on their side on this point. Where do I go from here?

The solicitors were fairly adamant that it was her desire when writing the will, that I should use them to sort the mess out - there is no proof of this, other than their word and the solicitor was not the one who even spoke to her at the time. The one I spoke to would likely have been in nappies when the will was set out.

Assuming, no reason why not and I do get the property, will there be any tax implications for me - will I owe them anything?

[Nick]

Harry, sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences. I imagine there would be CGT & IHT issues. You might be better off re-posting this to uk.legal.moderated

All the best, Nick.

[Bob Minchin]

Sorry to hear your news Harry. If the will names you as the beneficiary by name (rather than "my spouse") then I think it quite clear it should come to you.

The executor position is a formal responsibility and forms will have to be signed by all of them. It is not an invitation to choose one of the three to do the job. The work can be split to save fees but the final docs have to be signed by all. If you feel there is a lot to do and you could make useful savings then you can turn the handle, present the solicitors with all the info compiled onto a probate form (several excel calculators out there in google land) The fact that you were not married *possibly* means that the IHT transfer might not apply and the estate value over £325k will be subject to duties which have to be paid (somehow) before probate will be granted.

The fact that some of the value of the house is attributable to work/expenditure put in by you will be nigh on impossible to prove. You might just have to swallow that.

I'm surprised that the insurance co cough up to you so readily. I think the amount will be part of the estate however. Unless the policy specified otherwise.

You might be best off seeing your own solicitor - for a consultation fee to get a precise definition of where you stand.

Eventually you can get the house registered in your name but the combination of the deeds, the will and probate grant should be enough to allow you to delay this until all the dust has settled.

Good Luck

[Harry Bloomfield]

Thanks..

[Harry Bloomfield]

Bob Minchin presented the following explanation :

Off the top of my head, the total value will be possibly as much as £200K.

[The Natural Philosopher]

If the solicitors are named as executors they have you over a barrel. They will charge the absolute maximum that the law society allows them to.

At best another solicitor will tell you what that limit is.

[Adrian]

Condolences.

The will is all the "formal agreement" that's needed. If there wasn't a will, then marriage would be relevant.

This is a DIY group, after all.

You're trying to get them to sign as executors. But you don't want them to be executors.

What you need is a letter of renunciation from them, then submit that in place of their signature.

If they don't want to do that, you can force their hand, but it'll be a lot easier (=cheaper) if they do.

You forget a rather important document proving that it was her intent... She named them as executors in the will.

Is it named individuals, or is it a firm ("or their successors")?

You owe them for whatever time they spend on the matter. For a letter of renunciation, that should be minimal.

[Malcolm Race]

When my MiL died I was named as executor alung with her solicitor. A phone call and letter and the will was sent to me to deal with. More recently my wifes aunt named my wife and her solicitor as executors. When she died the solicitor refused to hand over the will and responsibility without a one off payment of IIRC £300. Was this trying to make up for lose fees? - the will was quite simple.

Malcolm

[Adrian]

Then IHT is irrelevant, and it should all be straightforward.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Adrian expressed precisely :

It just says 'two of the partners' of a firm. The firm has now been succeeded by another firm.

The actual will is straight forward enough. House and contents to me, any funds split equally to her grandkids, jewelry to her daughter.

The daughter gave the jewelry to the granddaughter for safe keeping. There are no disputes, all of us pulling in the same direction and agree with the wills contents.

I could, without any problems, get all parties down there and sign a document to say everyone was happy with the will and happy that I was being fair / honest with dealing with the contents of the will.

[Graham.]

Harry, my sincere condolences, and I hope everything works out for you.

73s G3ZVT

[Adrian]

So those two are two of the partners of the successor firm. No mention of succession, I presume? But I don't think that'd be enough of a get-out.

That's not your problem at the moment, though - you need to get the solicitors to renounce their executor status.

[Tim Lamb]

I think this can be up to 6% of the estate. Gross or net is unknown.

My sister died last Summer having foolishly named her solicitors as executors. To be fair, they had dealt with our affairs for 50 years and were considered friends. Between signing the will and her death, they amalgamated with a larger firm and all the people we knew retired.

I tried hard to get them to relinquish the executorship but the best I could get was for the work to be billed by the hour for a legal executive and for all communication to be by e-mail. It remains to be seen if this was the right decision! Currently stuck at HMRC compliance dept.

[Dave Liquorice]

That may have tax knockons in the future if it puts your estate over the IHT threshold. As you were not married you can't "take on" her IHT allowance. But that's for later.

That is a blessing. Seems to me that the solicitors/executors have their eye on a pile of easy money. Have a google about for how to remove an executor, if the majority of the parties involved don't want X as an executor there must be away for the majority to remove them.

If the estate is as straight forward as you suggest then doing the work yourself isn't that difficult. The biggest problem might be banks/insurance co's demanding to be sent an *orginal* Death Certificate. If you only have one you have to wait for it to be sent back before sending it to the next one, that wait can be weeks... Certainly when registering the death you can get multiple "orginal" certificates, later probably only copies that won't be accepted.

As for your loss, death is one of the very few certainties of life.

[GB]

They might *possibly* renounce, but what will induce them to? Solicitors write wills cheaply, as a sprat to catch a mackerel, the mackerel being the lucrative executorship work.

[harry]

I recently acted as executor to my mothers will. Perfectly straightforward. The people at the probate office have seen it all before and give out free advice on all aspects. There's a form to fill in and another tells you how to fill it in. There's a helpline number as well. So you can sit with the paperwork and pick up the phone if you have a problem

All these strange circumstances have happened before and can be catered for. So DIY and save a lot of time and money. At the very least, make an appointment & go down and talk it over with them.

God I hate solicitors!

[Harry Bloomfield]

Dave Liquorice presented the following explanation :

Someone wiser than me on such matters, suggested getting 5x at £4 each, which I did, because it would later cost £20 for the registrar to supply an original at a later date.

The bank were happy with sight of the original and their taking a copy of it, whilst there. The solicitor insisted on keeping an original, so

4x originals still left.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Which was exactly as happened in this case - £60 when they originally drew it up.

[stuart noble]

+1 to all that. The whole process is pretty straightforward and the probate office couldn't be more helpful. They hate solicitors too I think! There's a lot of tedious correspondence informing utility companies and the like, but it's essentially dogsbody work, and not something you want solicitors doing if you can help it.

[Harry Bloomfield]

harry wrote on 07/07/2015 :

There was a confusing point about the will, which they explained to me during my no charge half hour with them, but she was very pushy about the need to engage them for the probate etc. plus they were insistent on them to be the executors, as my partner had wanted and in in her will.

I must admit I hit the roof when I heard she had done her will, without at least consulting me and talking it over first.

Me too, they are worse than crooks, legalised robbery :D