washing machines in basements

[Jules]

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50 year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump mechanism typically used?

cheers

Jules

[NT]

I think the simplest answer is to add a second pump and wire it up to the one inside the machine. WM pumps are switched by triacs these days with lmited current handling abilities, so best use a relay so the WM triac doesnt see the extra pump power.

NT

[S Viemeister]

In many US basements, there's a slop sink/washtub, and the drain hose from the washer is simply clipped to the (in)side of it. I take you don't have that?

[Harry Bloomfield]

Jules has brought this to us :

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one, but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a none return valve would be needed.

Could you mount the machine high, rather than on the floor?

[Fredxx]

A door at waist level or higher would be an advantage.

Though just hope you don't have an off-balance load where it falls off it's table!!

[dennis]

There are pumps like saniflow that will push the hot water from washers about 7 meters up if you get desperate. Make sure they will pump *hot* water though, many can't.

[Steve Walker]

Funnily enough I've just had my Hotpoint in bits today to clean out soap residue and clumps of fibres after it developed an odour and I found that the pump has a floating ball non-return valve on the inlet and a rubber flap tye valve on the outlet as standard.

SteveW

[NT]

Those reduce the amount of foul water from the drain hose entering the wash tub, but as non return valves they have patchy effectiveness, and I certainly wouldnt count on them acting effectively against a head of water.

NT

[Dave Liquorice]

Not sure about directly connected (plumbing wise) series pumps. If they suck/blow at different rates I can envisage problems. Probably not for simple impellor type pumps, they don't particulary object to running dry, but worth bearing in mind. You may want slighly different timing for the additional pump as well so that it clears as much as it can after the machine pump has switched off.

Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have a sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting from the floor to the ceiling.

[<me9]

To use a rude word, Saniflo do a device for this very purpose.

[PeterC]

ISTR that a Miele will pump to a reasonable head and has a non-return valve, but that's one bloody expensive way of doing it.

[Steve Walker]

I was just surprised to see them at all - my previous 2 machines and the various ones I've had in bits over the years for other people have never had any valves and for the amount they are likely to hold back I would think them rather unnecessary. Even the slightest leakage would be likely to empty the outlet pipe completely between washes - if anything, the outlet valve would be more likely to seal well with a highish head in the pipework as it would force the flap tight against the seat. My personal preference would be a separate sump and pump.

SteveW

[Neal]

I know it is mentioned elsewhere, but a saniflow is an answer

I know saniflo is a bit of a dirty word on this site, and they can sometimes be a bugger if you don't know what you are doing. But there is a system designed for this purpose (vite) Fairly straightforward DIY job, but please fit a drain outlet just above the unit, otherwise you get soaked every time you try to work on it.

The advantage of this is that it is completely self contained, relatively maintenace free, and reparable if there are any problems. And you can add a sink beside the washing machine (always useful) running into the same unit.

They come with 32mm out, but I have reduced mine down to 15mm pipe running in the basement ceiling cavity. This suffices easily for the washing machine. The rise is abot 7ft And the discharge from the WM is plumbed directly into the saniflo input pipe with another reducer (so that the WM discharge piep ends above the water level in the saniflo, to avoid syphoning)

[NT]

Series pumps wont pump at different rates, assuming the difference in power isn't large. Troublesome cavitation or pipe collapse aren't going to happen on a small low head pump.

I see no advantage

yes - but an open container full of drain waste? not for me. Perhaps you could seal it and vent it to the waste pipe.

A saniflo has also been suggested - its a heck of an expensive way to buy a pump.

NT

[Rob]

Indeed - I had a quote (about £300 IIRC) from a plumber to do exactly this. He spent a while figuring out if the front drain could take dirty water, or if it was rain water only. Apparently it's both, simplifying the job considerably.

Rob

[Dave Liquorice]

I was thinking more of a 25 gallon or so ordinary water tank with lid and a small sump pump. It is waste water but from a washing machine so relatively clean, bung it under the unit with the sink that has also been mentioned as useful addition.

A Saniflow is an off the shelf solution designed for the job. Fairly sure you can get them without the bog inlet...

[Dave Liquorice]

Until a bit of fluff got tangled round the flap...

Aye, think of the trouble you would be in should the management find the machine with a hint of waste water in it or worse just do a spin cycle and find the clothes muckier afterwards. I get enough grief when our machine fails to pump clear 'cause of a blocked filter or button in the pump and that's clean water from the last rinse that hasn't been out of the machine.

[Owain]

It's only washing machine water - the first output should be sudsy, the remainder will be rinse water.

Of slight concern might be steam from a hot wash making the basement damp.

Owain

[Jules]

Ok, thanks all - sounds like a tank with a float valve and additional pump (plus some sort of drain c*ck, non-return valve etc.) is the way to go; even if the current machine's pump would cope on its own, there's no guarantee a future replacement would.

I suspect I can find a suitable tank and float easily enough for next to nothing, and the plumbing bit's straightforward enough. Not sure how easily I can get a pump, though - will have to have a look around. The local farm supply place almost certainly does basement sump pumps, but they're perhaps overkill for what I need (and therefore expensive both to buy and run!)

cheers

J.

[The Medway Handyman]

I've seen several uesd in attached garages with the waste discharging into the grid outside the garage doors. To my mind its a rainwater soakaway, but people don't seem bovvered.