victorian/edwardian houses or new houses?

[IMM]

Jerry built now means shoddy. Jerry Bros did just that, built a flash facade, sold it, and the rear was less so.

[IMM]

Or install exterior insulation and clad it in timber.

[dg]

Like I said, if the previous owner has completed all the major maintenance requirements, then there is little for the new owner to do.

Obviously this excludes minor routine work like clean gutters etc, and maintenance that is preformed on any house new or old that can be left out of the equation.

There are so many poorly maintained houses for a number of reasons. One is that home owners will not think twice about spending £500 - £1000 on a car service but will not dream of paying someone the same amount to maintain their home.

Another is the inability to realise the maintenance requirements of their property, or just general apathy. Reluctance to find a reliable trades person or lack of trust due to media reporting is another.

dg

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well it would take a couple of hunderd years for the trees to grow back, but, yes, I see your point.

When I were a lad...etc. etc.

They are fine up to toddle stage, as are flats with communal play areas.

I agree that after that its nice to have more space.

Render it and paint it?

[Andrew]

In article , IMM writes

If there weren't any SWMBO's there wouldn't be a 'new house premium', since we are far more sensible, aren't we :-)

[Dave Plowman]

Of course there was a vast variation in building standards - but *in general* the fact that they're still standing after 100 years means something. As you say, the real jerry built ones didn't last that long.

Speculation building? How many people buy a new house these days before the estate has started to be built? They look at the show house and then perhaps decide to buy - and their house is already under some stage of at least planning or construction - so the builder is speculating too.

Dunno Islington - sounds posh to me. Round this part of Sarf Lunnun they use London Stocks which seem to last pretty well. I reckon there's at least four different grades of them used in mine - the best ones naturally at the front. Doesn't seem to make much difference to the strength, though. And lime mortar allows things to move slightly without cracking. If you can't beat them, join them.

[Witchy]

Bummer! Thinking about it we're not on a full-blown main road 'cos we don't get the pantechnicons and big buses......gawds knows what the house would do if we did!

I just wish I had the Missus' foresight - she can see the place finished and I can't :)

as bad as this?

it's currently MUCH worse than that now.....those were taken a year ago.

Eep! Caused by what?

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[Bob Eager]

Well, at its peak it had 43 machines in it. About 20 server towers, the rest desktops. 17 monitors, 47 spare hard drives, 15 plastic boxes of spare cards and other bits, 4 token ring MAUs, three 24 port hubs, 28 keyboards, 50 or so mice, about 60 diskette drives, and I forget the rest (but much more).....!

I sold/chucked/gave away some of it and the rest is in a new shed. Apart from the 12 or so machines in temporary or permanent use.

It's a large room and this is the only section that hadn't been boarded (original L&P). Right underneath where the kids constantly jump, also there was a loose end of an old iron gas pipe lying on the top of the laths...other end in a T joint I couldn't undo. Lifted some more boards and sawed it off, and ceiling fell three days later, so who knows?

[Witchy]

I've got a similar problem in the storage/dining room. It used to be divided in 2 by a brick wall that wasn't really tied into either side wall, and when the builders got to the ceiling they just stopped and used cornicing to hide the fact.....grr....when I took the wall down during renovation (this was the weevil/damp room) I could see how bad the ceiling now was so it's temporarily supported by battens screwed to the joists. It's right below our little one's bedroom......much jumping occurs as you can expect! Fortunately in the not too distant future I'll be under the boards in that room so hopefully I'll be able to repair from the back using wet plaster......

-- cheers,

witchy/binarydinosaurs

[stuart noble]

A bit like thouse roads off Bedford Hill. Very choice buildings, but all converted to flats. This is why Hackney and Stoke Newington became trendy, even without decent transport. Brixton didn't quite make it though, despite the Victoria Line and the lovely housing stock. Couldn't help noticing on a trip to Balham the other night a) how full the pubs were and b) ladies of the night parading on Bedford Hill. They used to be shoulder to shoulder up there by the common when I was a lad.

I would guess your London stocks are pretty much the same as mine, that is stacked one on top of the other with a crumbly powder between them. I think the merits or otherwise of lime mortar are academic when this stuff has long ceased to be mortar in any meaningful sense of the word.

[Neil Jones]

Apparently lichens only grow in places of low atmospheric pollution, so it's a good indicator of air quality, as well as any aesthetic benefit.

[RichardS]

but is the same true about moss? In fact, are moss and lichen synonymous? I know that lichens are rarer than they once were.

I'm sitting working looking at the roof of the house opposite, and this is liberally covered in mosses. This is sunny Twickenham, not that far out of London and close to the Heathrow flightpaths and one of London's arterial road, so whereas this might not be an area particularly high in atmospheric pollution it certainly isn't the cleanest environment.

I've taken the liberty of crossposting this to uk.rec.gardning, in the hope that one of their knowledgeable netizens may be able to throw some light on the question.

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

[Andy Hall]

I just discussed with SWMBO, who is a zoology graduate, but has also studied plant life extensively.

There are a whole spectrum of lichens and some will grow in moderately polluted conditions. Others are more sensitive to conditions, so for example you will see a richer set of lichens in a forest in Wales than you will in town.

They are a composite organism from a fungus and algae, bacteria or both.

are rather different, in that theyare plants and produce chlorophyll themselves and are generally attracted to places where there is moisture - hence finding them in gutters...

Clearly it makes sense to remove moss from gutters to avoid them cloggin and water running down the walls, but there is no reason to remove them or lichens from roofs. Arguably there is more risk of damage from blasting with a pressure washer or from use of chemicals.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

[kinslerp]

I heard recently on some environmental thing on R4 about the effects of pollution on buildings. All this is subject to the vagiaries of my memory, but I think I've remembered the gist of it right: In Victorian times, they burnt loads of sulphorous coal, and got gypsum (or something) deposits on buildings. Now, with all the petroleum fuel being used, there's hardly any sulphur, but loads of nitrogen-containing stuff -- which means that these days it's easier for plants/algae/etc to grow on buildings.

[Dave Plowman]

In article , stuart noble This is why Hackney and Stoke Newington became

I'd hardly call it cheap now. You've really got to go out as far as Mitcham to get cheaper places, and of course, most of that is much newer.

Did you visit the Bedford? It used to be the tarts pub - now it's all luvvies. You still see a few tarts up by the common during the day - all knock kneed in there mini skirts in this weather. Thought the police had cleared them away at night.

My builder mate says it's just the pointing that holds them together. But if you do any repairs, don't use a strong mix of mortar - the bricks will simply crack with any movement.

[Tony Bryer]

The change was in 1875 when the Public Health Act brought in building byelaws, though enforcement of same was very variable for many years (and some would say still is ). My limited geographical experience as a BCO in SW London suggested that the later Victorian buildings were, in general, significantly better built that the earlier ones.

[IMM]

Well regulation and standards did come in during the 1800s, so the later houses would be better. The Victorians invented "standards", so everyone is nearly working the same. Some Victorian houses had different width floorboards across the same room, as each supplier had different sizes.

[Bob Hobden]

synonymous?

Actually, since the Clean Air Act came into force (yes I remember that!) the pollution has reduced drastically. Most came from coal fires and those of us of a certain age will remember those horrid yellow filthy smogs every winter in the good old days. Whilst most pollution still comes from the home, central heating etc, vehicle pollution has made drastic reductions too in recent years, in fact the pollution from cars is a reversing trend despite more and more on the roads. Because of this Litchens can now be seen on many rooftops, walls and trees, even in towns, which is something one never saw when I was a kid. Take a look as you drive along, you will spot some roofs covered with grey litchens.

I seem to remember Kew saying recently that they were on the acendancy in their garden and you aren't too far from there.

True, it's a bit like Ivy, you do the damage getting it off.

Whilst there are some "green" roofs in the UK (Notcutts GC in Staines for one) it is a strongly growing trend on the continent the idea being that building a house and then having a green roof does not reduce the green habitat for parts of the animal kingdom one bit. It's a bit like building underground especially for the flying insects/birds. So whilst moss in your gutters is not good, on the roof it isn't a problem.

Incidentally in certain parts of the country people used to plant Houseleeks ( Semperivivum tectorum ?) on their roofs to ward against Witches and lightening. Plant them on the sunny side of the house. :-)

[Curiosity]

The road I live in is mostly composed of victorian semis, it should be renamed skip road for all the skips which appear outside these houses. I have seen entire front walls/roofs being replaced, perhaps that is why they are still standing after 100 years.

Paul

[IMM]

Pollution from homes: oil, gas and electricity generation, is approx 42%, so clamping down on this is very productive. The MicroGen Stirling elec/gas boiler will make a big impact here. The coming minimum 86% boiler efficiency is welcome too and will make an impact. EU regulation on gas burners, which are very clean anyhow, are tightening too.

Vehicles "are" a very large polluters, especially when they are concentrated in cities, where masses of people live. Great progress is being made on pollution from homes, in insulation standards, boiler efficiency , etc, yet there appears no immediate solution to the filthy car. Technology is there to make boilers very efficient and very clean burning, at no great cost, also by increasing insulation standards, a homes emissions can be drastically reduced. This can be done right now and people wonder why it is not being implemented. The car? Well apart from taxing larger engines, not much at all can be done. There are some advanced concept engines around, but the big corps have not yet taken up these ideas, tending not wanting any change at all.

Cars are even dirtier until the engine and exhaust is hot. So, in many cases, when the car is used to go to Safeway or the school run, the thing is hardly up to temperature before being switched off. In this period they pollute heavily. The current piston internal combustion engine needs totally replacing.