UTP loop outside house?

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Having got a funky new TFT monitor now (I know, but it is miles better than the old CRT it replaces) I am allowed to move the PC downstairs to free up the small room for sprog2 (due Easter).
Only problem is getting network connectivity to it and to the printer that will live next to it...
Wireless is an option as I do have a wifi net at the moement but this adds up to a fair bit more cash than a couple of bits of UTP. There are also bandwidth issues. Problem with UTP is routing it in a wife-acceptable way that doesn't require huge amounts of effort (or lifting the fitted carpets f poss). The only real route is from my router into the loft, back down the outside wall and into the conservatory...
Two problems:
Firstly, will the cable degrade in sunlight? I'm assuming so but I can live with this as long as it will give me a couple of years life.
Secondly, reading back in this group and hunting on the net suggests that lightning strikes near the building will fry things. Now, I assume that the risk of the cable itself getting struck is not the issue here (plenty of other things like TV aerials nearby and higher) but induced surges are the problem caused by local strikes? If so, is this really an issue? I remember as a kid our neighbours sockets being blown off of the wall following a strike on a tree in the garden - this was supposedly induced and the claim was that the strike had not hit overhead cables or anything. If this is true then I can't see how 3 metres of UTP is going to make a huge difference. A strike that close will fry my house whatever. Surely being the other side of a few inches of brick won't make a lot of difference?
Am I missing something? Is UTP much more dangerous than the sat cable running down the wall or the TV cable? I guess PCs maybe a bit more sensitive to surges but even so...
Cheers,
Darren
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 21:07:32 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@ukc.ac.uk (dmc) wrote:

It happened locally....the damage was extensive. What the chances are, I don't know. I guess it depends on the size of the strike and also how close it is. A university not a million miles from me had a department who (typically) went their own way and did this. They lost a lot of stuff.
It doesn't need a large induced current to fry interfaces etc.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
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If this is the Uni I think you are talking about then I suspect I know the incident :-)
That storm took out a lot of other kit I seem to remember - stuff that was inside buildings and isolated by fibre from the buildings concerned. If we get a strike like that near the house then I suspect that my network is toast anyway (along with the tv, stereo and most other electrical kit in the house).
I can't see that a few metres outside will dramatically increase the risk so I think I will go ahead.

Indeed. Which is why I find it difficult to believe that a few more metres down a wall will make that much difference given the amount I already have strung about inside the house (granted, not on your scale Bob ;-))
Cheers,
Darren (cue huge lightning strike in Folkestone area)
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 22:30:28 UTC, snipped-for-privacy@ukc.ac.uk (dmc) wrote:

Well, I must admit that in the aforementioned incident the UTP *was* slung across the roof....!
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Bob Eager
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(dmc) wrote:

There is no real antispike for a direct hit. The equiptment is in danger even if it is not connected to the national grid or a telephone line etc. Any set that is within 4 feet of a lightning struck circuit is in danger.
I think I got that correct. It was a link I read from another site. If it's the site I think it is, they banned me -and of course I've lost the link.
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Still, if this is the Uni that I think you are talking about Bob talking about, then the lightening strike can't have been as bad as that year that a building with a lot of CAT5 in fell into that tunnel...
;-)
Paul.
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Paul <paul at javajedi dot com> wrote:

I think we may just be talking about the same Uni here :-)
Darren
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:44:13 UTC, "Paul" <paul at javajedi dot com> wrote:

But since that was 1974, they were still using teletypes and Ethernet hadn't been invented....!
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Bob Eager
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On 03/01/2004 dmc opined:-

A cable run outside will make little difference to the risk, especially the risk of a surge induced by a close strike.
It will also make little difference to the path of a direct hit, which will take the most direct path regardless.
By far the biggest risk will be of a surge coming in via the phone line, via the modem into your PC.
A few years ago our local church a couple hundred yards away was hit by a massive direct strike. The resulting surge took out my satellite system, modem and laser printer, passing right through a PC without damaging it. BT were busy for several days repairing lines for a good half mile around the church. The church itself, took much longer to repair.
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On Sat, 03 Jan 04 21:07:32 GMT, dmc wrote:

I should imagine the bog standard stuff will degrade but it will take quite a time and cable is cheap... Is the proposed route south facing and getting direct sunlight for most of the day? Or north facing and hardly ever seeing direct sunlight? The exposure will have a great influence on how long any degredation will take at a guess from less than a year (full sunlight all day) to virtually never (sheltered north facing). You could of course run it through a bit of conduit or simply paint it. Or see if there is any UV stable CAT5 out there, someone found armoured the other month.

Lighting is funny stuff it takes the easiest route for it this may not be what humans would consider to be the easiest route... Like it will jump into a big fat conductor for a few feet then jump back out again at a bend.

Network cards have transformer isolated in/outputs and are pretty robust. Only you know how many thunderstorms you get and how close the strikes tend to be. Personally I'd check my insurance and not worry too much about the fairly remote chance of a strike taking out a bit of kit.
TBH without spending serious amounts of money there is not a lot you can do to protect against actual or nearby strikes.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
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East facing. Sun for part of the day.

I have a route that will mean that I can cabletie it to a downpipe for most of the route. That should give it enough protection for a couple of years I reckon.

Few storms. Never known a strike anywhere that near here in the 6 years we have been here.

Thats the way I see it. To be honest, not much of the kit is worth anything anyway - its old stuff that I have collected which does what I want. If I kill a P200 I won't be too disappointed (particulary as there is a fair chance that my TV, stereo etc will be dead by this point!)

Just what I thought. Cheers
Darren
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On Sat, 03 Jan 04 21:07:32 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ukc.ac.uk (dmc) wrote:

It would probably do that. One trick you can do is to get a length of rainwater downpipe similar to the type used on the house and fit it near to a corner of the wall. Run the cable in that. You would need to look hard to spot that it is not meant to be there.

Unless you live in a location where lightening tends to strike, I wouldn't worry about it.

.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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snipped-for-privacy@ukc.ac.uk (dmc) wrote in

Just something I thought I'd chuck into the mix. The "U" stands for unshielded - so why not get shielded? STP they call it :) I /think/ it's primarily used for fast networks but I'm no networking expert. There'll be something on the Net about it and the standards relating to maximum lengths, etc.
john
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Shielded (STP) hjas nopthing to do with speed of network - it is fire resistant for use in ceiling cavities in offices to comply with some fire regs. It is *sometimes* slightly better cable though as it costs a shedload.
I believe you can get surge protectors for cat5, though I've not seen it in a while as networking guru types will tell you to use fibre cabling as its not copper based - it does however cost a shedload.
Robert
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Robert Irwin wrote:

You would be hard pressed to find a situation that required STP cables (and suitable patch panels etc). It's an interference thing, although it didn't really catch on. You will find FTP cables and FTP patch panels which include shielded jacks and suitable termination for the foil shield in the cable. This is carried through the (often gold) plated casing of RJ45 plugs on FTP patch cables. FTP cable on it's own is not much use without these other elements which add up to become quite expensive. It's got nothing to do with fire, that's LSZH cables: low smoke zero halogen which only applies to the outer sleeve, and used instead of the regular PVC.

Hmm - not sure cost is a reason for something to be better, although I understand your train of thought. LSZH cables are ~10 over the price of regular Cat5e per 305m box and can be identified by their unusual colourful sleeve.
Pre-emptive answer to cable colours Pin Channel Colour Stripe 1 T2 White Orange 2 R2 Orange White 3 T3 White Green 4 R1 Blue White 5 T1 White Blue 6 R3 Green White 7 T4 White Brown 8 R4 Brown White
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Toby.

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I'm pretty sure that Sun spec STP for the newer Sunfire servers. On these the console serial ports are RJ45 and STP is recommended to avoid interference. Thats the only place that I have seen it in use (and many of our servers currently have UTP for serial lines anyway - never been a problem so far (he says tempting fate!)
Darren
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dmc wrote:

One of its main selling points was the protection from snooping by picking up network traffic.
Its no faster and reaches no furher than UTP.
Its slightly less prone to interfernece from strong adjacent sources of radiation, but not much.

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replace, but temperature variations may be hard on it. You could stick up a bit of PVC outside cable trunking (as close to the wall colour as possible), or make your own out of garden hose for extra protection to keep all the little ones and zeros cosy on a subzero night. Run behind a down spout if possible for extra protection and to keep it out of sight. Remember 100m maximum, but it's hardly a problem unless you live in Buckingham Palace. When you see the abuse cat5 cable gets behind the walls in most workplaces it's a wonder any survives. It's tougher than it looks.

Ah go on. Take the risk. Loads of people do. Sure it'd be a great excuse to wifey for a whole load of new kit.
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I "needed" to network the kids' computers which are located in their bedrooms at the front of the house, main computer at the back.
To cut a long story short, I ran CAT5 cables (2) along outside walls and up the front and side of the house and through the walls as it was easier than lifting carpets all over the house.
Thought it would be a temporary thing, they've now been there nigh on three years now. So far, no noticeable degradation in the cable and no lightning strikes. (Shouldn't have said that, I''ll be back soon to report on the fire damage!)
Must get Wi-Fi soon though.
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It's an issue where you have a cable run between buildings with different earths (or indeed within a building where different parts have different earths).
In your case it'll be much the same as if you had run the cable down the inside of the same wall.
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