Untimely airconditioning thread

[Simon Gardner]

I already have the choice. I choose to exercise it.

[Dave Liquorice]

Agreed, was a bit nippy yesterday afternoon airtemp around -1C Moderate Breeze (F4, 15mph) wind chill down to between -10C and -15C didn't stop No.1 son wanting to go out for a walk, sans hat and mittens. Mind you he wanted to come in get them within 5 mins but we went straight back out again.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Jesus H.

YOU try working in a tin topped uninsulated factory unit in Johannesburg, with intenal temperatures goind up top 40C, and the heatsink you left in the sun, measuring 55C BEFORE YOU EVEN SWITCHED IT ON.

I remember complaining to my boss that I could no longer work as my sweat was making the ink run on the circuit I was drawing.

"No problem" he said. "Today we drink beer instead?"

So we did.

Sleeping at night in a tin topped house with no insulation was equally hard.

But possible. Ive been in full humidity 40C + conditions (Mexico), and near Death Valley, been up and about by day peaking around 55C and at night something like 50C without aircon.

And in this country you whinge if it gets over 30C.

Wusses the lot of you.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Up to the point at which the inside air temperature is equal to the external, at which point insulation is totally useless.

In fact, at this point, floor insulation - which isolates the floor from the always cooler ground, is, in fact, counter productive.

[The Natural Philosopher]

My God. Is this guy for real? The secret of Myra Hindly is out. She had AIR CONDITIONING!!!

So, overall a/c is dangerous to society at large because:

True. So what? So does youir constant hot air production.

No, its not.

I don't think so.Eating rap food and doing no exercise makes people fat. You are more likley to be active in aircon than not. I know. Ive done both had both.

I challenge you to walk 10 miles in 85% humidity and 40C plus temperatures anyway.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I prefer a temperature of 21C or higher frankly.

30C is getting a bit on the warm side for me if its humid, 40C if it isn't. My limits are around 40C humid 50C not.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its very efficient. I can;t remember details, but heat pumps are - even with teh cost of electricity to pump the heat - reckoned to be overall better than burning the oil.

One can envisage a huge underground heat or cool bank, that heats the ground in summer, and freezes it rock solid in winter, being used to heat and cool a house.

I would love to give it a try one day.

[IMM]

Maxie, are you volunteering?

[IMM]

Have you walked to the North Pole barefoot as well?

Wimps the lots of them!

[Simon Gardner]

You mis-typed. You should have written: "It doesn't get unbearably hot until 25."

But that's not the point. The point is what is pleasant to live and work in? The answer to that is about 21 degrees and 40 per cent humidity.

[IMM]

This depends on the efficiency of the heat pump. The are rated by their COP.

A US university did this. They heated a building during the winter by extracting heat from the ground. This turned to near permafrost by the heat pump(s). They then cooled the building during the summer by extracting the coolth from the permafrost they created.

The a/c in question is an air-to-air heat exchanger, which generally is the most inefficient. Ground or water sourced, tend to be the most efficient setups. With an air to water heat pump, when the outside temps are around freezing they usually only supply warmish water.

The cost of running them is slightly more than a good natural gas condensing boiler, but the problem is the "very" high capital cost of installation, the main reason they have not been taken up, except in special conditions. Enthusiasts tend to install heat pumps. The government does not promote them as they use electricity which is very efficient from burnt fuel in the power station to point of use. If heat pumps were taken up en-mass the greenhouse gasses would rocket. The government is attempting to get people to use high efficiency, low emission, natural gas burning at point of use. They also have faith in the new MicroGen Stirling boiler electricity/heat boiler. Much more efficient all around burning gas at point of use. Unless we adopt the Swedish method of local combined heat and power, power stations. This is unlikely as the UK centralised power generation after WW2, and is investing heavily in wind power.

[Grunff]

:-)

This isn't a survival exercise you know...

I'm sure we could cope very well without CH - one or two wood stoves would keep enough of the house warm enough through the winter. But we *choose* to have CH because it makes life that little bit more pleasant.

My reasons for installing aircon are very similar. I've survived perfectly well without it for many years, and I'm sure I'd continue to do so. But since there are new two of us working from home, it seemed sensible to spend a little money on something which will ultimately make the summer more pleasant.

[IMM]

He is talking about normal people. The figure is 40.

Wrong! usually about 22-23C. And I have had to address the office thermostat wars. I took them away.

[Simon Gardner]

24-25 about 40 RH is my limit for productivity. Ain't human variation wonderful?

[dmc]

We are in the process of working with architects to design a new learning resource centre (library :)). One plan put forward is a huge amount of concrete below ground to use as heat store. During the day hot air will blow through it and during the night this heat will be removed.

Sound fun (might be perfectly standard these days I guess). Will be interesting to see how well it copes with 1000 PCs...

Darren

[Huge]

I was pottering in the garden yesterday in my shirtsleeves.

I don't have any problem with cold - I just hate the heat.

[Huge]

[19 lines snipped]

Hear, hear.

Life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.

[IMM]

Darren,

It is called an air-core slab. The disadvantage is that nasties may inhabit and mould may grow in the passageways down there. See "The Passive Solar House" by James Kachadorian, in which the air-core slab is central to the design, using it as an return plenum for a forced air system. The system can be used to heat and cool.

[derek]

I'll acknowledge it's in that ballpark but they start at less than 20 quid and can be fitted in place of a light fitting.

It's because you've become accustomed to having it. ;-)

Having said all that my "home office" is really my car and I always get a car with aircon. Oddly it does not seem to affect the fuel consumption at all.

DG

[John Rumm]

This is rapidly declining into I can stand it hotter than you pi$$ing contest... ;-)

Much depends on what you are acclimatised to... I worked with some students from Oman once - in mid summer when we all though it was uncomfortably hot they, were still wearing jumpers.

Another point to consider - is just because you may be able to function in a 40 deg environment - it is not going to do the reliability of the computer equipment you are working with much good.

Not really - if you don't like the heat / humidity - can use air con to fix it - and accept the implications (cost etc) of using it then what is the problem?

Personally I find once the temperature gets to 30 ish in my office I can no longer work properly on concentrate for long periods, so I become less productive. That costs me money - using air con in those circumstances is not just because I am a wuss (which I freely admit - so what?), it is also economic good sense.