mmm yeah - xcept there are a few issues that make that un/hard workable - not least the bridleway status - can you shut a bridleway for 24 hours without notice? what's the penalty?
Cheers JimK
I think your first port of call should be your district council, they may be able to help you with legal notices in the local rag if they are required, or even chip in towards it's upkeep.
I certainly wouldn't be spending thousands without checking some basic facts first
Scenario.... Highways officer from County Council blocking your bridleway with a little white van, we have received complaints from legitimate users about vehicles driving along this bridleway... you, politely, tell him it is your land and he says *that's all right then*.
Subject to the right of others to pass and re-pass along the route on foot, cycle or horseback accompanied by one or more dogs!
The County Council is required to erect a sign, denoting the route, where it leaves the metalled part of the highway.
Erm. years of direct experience. The various agricultural bodies, DEFRA, NFU, CLA publish guidance to farmers whenever legislation changes users rights regarding access to the countryside. The one coming up is the proposed legislation creating public access to as much of the coastline as possible.
A quick dig in my filing cabinet produced The Rights of Way Act 1990, guidance notes for farmers published by the Countryside Commission and MAFF (now DEFRA). A second is Managing Public Access, a joint production from CLA, NFU and the Countryside Commission dated 1994.
There ought to be some stuff on your County Council website and the DEFRA one.
The rights of way bible is called the Green Book but I have never seen one.
FYI the owners of the adjoining land are responsible for preventing obstruction by overgrown hedges and the like. Theoretically Highways have responsibility for the surface but rarely have funds or interest to help.
Phone the County Council and ask to speak to the rights of way officer for your area. They are usually practical people with an interest in keeping the peace between owners and users.
regards
Have a look here.
The highways authority have a duty for maintaining the right of way, not necessarily to maintain the surface because there is some discretion but many seem to have assumed this. After all if you plough a cross field path and then run a tractor wheel up and down the row to compact it you don't expect the highway authority to come and surface it?
Even when the highway authority do assume upkeep of the surface then they only own the surface, not the land underneath "solum", unless they purchase that land. Should this surface be damaged other than by fair wear and tear by the public then they can recover the costs of making good.
AJH
The Rights of Way act 1990 gives the occupiers of *agricultural* land the right to plough up cross field paths and bridleways if this can't reasonably be avoided. Subject to their restoration within a time limit to a condition *convenient* to use.
Yes. In JimK's circumstances this does not appear to be agricultural and certainly not *cross field*land so any deliberate disturbance needs to be agreed with the highway authority.
regards
As my private track (with bridleway status) is the only way to access my house - more likely I would challenge them to stop me and have them ridiculed.
Er yes agreed. That is after all the deftn of "bridleway" (BTW I am not disputing its' existence...)
Technically Yes - But they don't cos they don't have any (of our) money left...
?But there aren't any?
EXACTLY!
But are unlikely to assist, more likely to start jobsworthy "insistence" on some spec. or other costing =A31000s more than I am prepared to pay.
Scenario:- If I concreted the whole thing what's the worst case outcome from my point of view? and on what pref. legal basis? I would not be blocking it or denying anyone their rights over it.... so who would do what about it?
Cheers JimK
In message , JimK writes
Umm.. I can't answer that. Highways have always been helpful: supplying free kissing gate sets, replacement bridleway gates and metal furniture. They must have some *powers* but I don't know what.
Under the various acts you can close off a section in order to carry out
*works*. Agriculturally speaking this might be for work related to field drainage, cable laying or such like. Inevitably notification would have to be given along with a time scale.Concreting the whole thing would not please horse riders but you might get a vote of thanks from ladies with prams and the cyclists.
The concrete wheel tracks with softer ground between sounds a reasonable compromise but I do think you need the whole width to be more or less level.
If you are determined not to involve Highways you could ask for comment in news groups specialising in horses or rights of way without revealing your location.
regards
and the walkers I suspect! In context - the horses *have* to use full on tarmaced lanes to get to/ from one end of it (the way we drive out), at the other end there is a metalled road for min 100m before muddy tracks start again. So it's not like they can "lose" themselves in any "soft turfy wilderness" and suddenly come upon my concrete tracks.... the rest of the track is surfaced with large uneven stone flags (but a on-trivial 6" thick say), or crushed concrete, or rough tarmac lumps and loose gravel all with lashings of surface water to varying depths - it's not a bucolic horsey heaven scene is it??!! :>)
Surely on balance, sloped-edged concrete tracks would be an improvement for most users of it?
mmm currently drainage is down the middle so that could be tricky to do, plus would change the whole drainage setup...
Thanks for your comments Tim, very interesting. Cheers JimK
In message , JimK writes
Doesn't sound a major issue.
I forget the width you were proposing but anything linear raised or lowered is a hazard to a cyclist. I have a set of barbed wire scars across my left thigh caused by my front wheel being *trapped* in a shallow wheel rut and tipping me onto a fence.
Oh. I have a copy of the specification used by groundwork trust here. Basically 6" of MOT type1 topped with 6" of 20mm to dust crushed concrete. In the event, the whole job was done with crushed concrete. They drained by crowning or sloping to a ditch at the side. Highways and Herts. County Council funded the job at around 58K.
regards
mmm yeah but bearing in mind the rest of the surfaces on the bridleway
- a cyclist could hardly or reasonably be "surprised" or object when they find themselves on a regular 18" wide flat surface for 150m ? If they can't manage to steer & keep straight on it then surely they could reasonably be expected to get off and push? (as some of them do on other more ludicrous parts of the bridleway).
The question is still "who decides what sort of surface I appply to my roadway over which some specific other users have rights to pass"... We may well all have our ideal surfaces but I can't accept (yet) that I am obliged to provide some conbination of them all - unless someone can show me where the (legal) requirement is.
what distance was that for!? hope they got it tendered "competitively"!
ISTR crushed concrete was abt =A32/T ex works.....
cheers JimK
In message , JimK writes
I don't think there is one. Your insurers may have an opinion with regard to any public liability. Inevitably, now that everyone is looking over their shoulders to avoid responsibility for anything likely to lead to litigation, over specification will occur. The bridleways on this farm are subject to rutting. Cattle feeding trips in soft conditions can quickly erode a pair of trenches 6" deep. Our Highways man supplied a few tons of crushed concrete to put in the softer spots. So that was deemed acceptable at the time.
Not my money:-)
400m of byway and around 800m of bridleway (to a lower specification) The job included digging out, installing treated softwood edging, membrane, laying and rolling the surface in two stages and finally about 400m of three rail post and rail fencing plus some gates.regards
"supplied" as in gratis? you to apply it? or stockpiled for them to do as and when?
So in general how's it work - do you approach Highways man and ask for assistance? or do they receive "complaints" from ROW users and then offer assistance??
what was it like before all this? and how is it holding up?
cheers JimK
Gratis. They delivered to my yard for me to use.
I think you would have heard by now: if he were getting serious complaints.
Our particular Highways man was initially employed by the district council and I first met him at a site meeting with our then landlords. Subsequently we bought the land and I had various contacts with him over issues like *wobbly* stiles. (they issued free kissing gates and arranged a volunteer working party to install them). He attends the
*rights of way* committee meeting at our parish councilHe moved to the County Council Offices when the responsibility for rights of way changed but I've not noticed any difference.
I would just phone for a *chat*, explain who you are and your problem. Ask for advice on an affordable solution. Be humble:-) Towards the end of the conversation suggest you have heard that landowners have received help by way of materials in other Counties. Budget time is April so you are about right to get your toe in the door for next years allocation. Much sucking of teeth between now and then though:-)
The bridleway is fine but I rarely take vehicles along that route. The byway has puddled where water fails to drain easily and has *potholed* in two places. I think 20mm to dust topping is too fine for normal road vehicles. Previously the byway was hoggin/gravel surfaced and badly rutted and potholed. The bridleway was soft arable land with some ancient cart ruts.
regards
mmm I agree we used some "cricketball to dust" crushed concrete on some other sections and it's holding up well (to cars, horses etc - no ruddy big traclers :>)) tho running water soon erodes it....
mmm maybe I could see if i can't find some cheap chunky crushed concrete and hoy it down - thing is I'm getting pretty Peed off constantly maintaining it - usually in winter- hence my thoughts turning to "real" concrete tracks for a try at longevity...
thanks for your time Tim Cheers JimK
JimK wrote: ...
No, but you can close it temporarily if you issue the proper notices. As Phil says, your local aauthority can advise you on that.
Colin Bignell
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