Listening to the Euro stuff on the news as I sit here
And there's all this stuff about how the EU officials are insisting that we do this and insisting that we do that
and I can't help but come to the conclusion that much of what they are doing is simply "shooting the messenger"
tim
That's the reason we voted Brexit! The EU being dictatorial, yet again, telling us what to do and how to manage our affairs. It's in their blood; in their DNA; they're so used to doing it that they can't stop or see the damage they're doing. Typical unaccountable bureaucrats, believe they're untouchable and that they run the world.
I'm concluding they are doing *exactly* what 'we' would have done if the positions were reversed.
And you really can't say you weren't warned.
You have to be Turnip to behave like a c**t and expect others to be gentlemen towards you.
We were desperate to leave the EU. Now want to delay that point to suit ourselves, regardless of how that may effect the EU. Pie in the sky. You don't hand in your notice to an employer you hate (and he knows it) and expect him to be flexible about working that notice.
I'm casually watching 'Nothing to declare UK' and it's funny to see all the people having stuff confiscated and destroyed because the people *weren't* coming in from the EU. ;-)
So what of all the 'booze cruises' and people taking vans over to France or doesn't that still happen in any case?
This looked quite sober reading (and from Feb):
Cheers, T i m
Why are you surprised? They are unaccountable and untouchable.
I'm sure that a lot of us who voted Leave did so in the hope that the other countries might come up with a better offer for us to stay in.
If that were to happen that offer would have to come from the council of ministers, who don't meet until next Monday.
Now, that may be very unlikely to happen but I do think that it should be given the opportunity
So on that basis, I think that it is completely unacceptable for the unelected, unaccountable, jumped up, EU administrator to say "go and get out now!" before he can have possibly be advised as to the feelings of the complete cohort of ministers.
tim
Speaking as a remainer, I'd think that an understandable but very risky tactic. However the Brits aren't the only ones capable of risky tactics. I agree with Dave that Europe would say if you've got to go, go now. The prospect of the process being about to start now, and not when the Brits feel like it is probably loosening a few bowels amongst the Brexit leadership and might make them more willing to grab at a face-saving better offer when it is put to them by the council of ministers, maybe as early as next week. Remember the Irish and the Lisbon Treaty?
Nick
I would argue that it is not possible to make a sensible decision about leaving the EU until you know the terms and conditions of any future trade and other agreements. The EU are unlikely to offer what we might think of as favourable terms as they do not wish to encourage others to leave.
It appears, from what I heard on the radio, that we don't even have enough experienced staff to run the negotiations properly.
Of course.
Quite. And :
"During the two-year negotiation period, EU laws would still apply to the UK. The UK would continue to participate in other EU business as normal, but it would not participate in internal EU discussions or decisions on its own withdrawal."
So much for the 'negotiation we were promised?
Doesn't look like we will need any ... ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Well they problem is that they have got to appear to be firm, as there are other countries who are limbering up to try to tweak the rules for themselves. The big problem for us seems to be that this choice is not exactly what most of the people wanted, despite the vote. I think they wanted to say piss off government and what about us not in London?
However from what I've been hearing its turning into wrinklies want out, yooung wanted in, and we could see some kind of backlash in the country over this with regions persecuting the outers . Youung versus old and region against region. Inf only the EU could see the wood for the trees here they could run a united states of Europe but with some local opt outs that could be dispensed with gradually as the standards of living ironed out. I feel sorry for the Welsh, as they are net winners being in the EU, but now where will the money come from?
We shall see, its not too late to have a rethink, but it looks like the EU will want to use the stick not the carrot on their other descentors which I think will hasten the break up not stop it. Junkers is a bit of an idiot.
Brian
Thanks
The only one that many people won't have known about already is probably
< quote >Article 50 provides that the EU will negotiate a new agreement with the withdrawing country over two years. That can be extended, but only by unanimous agreement. The article also specifies that, when agreeing a new deal, the EU acts without the involvement of the country that is leaving.
So that basically rather than going in there and negotiating the best deal for the UK - a scenario accepted by many commentators - the UK will have to stand in the corridor outside the headmasters office and then be called in, once the likes of Rumania and Poland have finally decided what her fate should be.
Humiliating ? No of course not.
The rest of the article concerning the disastrous consequences for the UK economy should be already well known.
michael adams
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Even if that were the broad intent and actuality, there are things like the European Medicines Agency which is based in London. I can't see that remaining there for two years, and then suddenly moving on the last day of year two. Still less can I imagine the 27 being happy for it to remain located in London beyond two years. So, I suspect they are likely already close to deciding a new location and packing up whatever they will take with them as soon as possible.
That would not, in my view, constitute continued participation in other EU business as normal.
Well as the drugs companies are complaining about how slow the EMA is, this would look like progress.
I don't think it's saying the EU excluding the leaving country *decides* what happens to the leaving country, rather that the EU excluding the leaving country *negotiates* with the leaving country.
Nope.
Well, I think it's still early days on this relationship breakup. We are currently in the 'threats and crying' stage and hope to get the decree Nisi before the end of the year. At that point some may accept it's serious and others will wait for the absolute two years later before changing their stationary. ;-)
Nope ... 'talk to my solicitor'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
I think this point has already been made in another post
The agreement and negotiations take place among the remaining members as to what deal they're going to offer the UK. Then the UK is allowed back into the room and given the choice of accepting or rejecting the new deal .*
If this goes on for longer than two years, then the existing deal remains in place including the ?350 million per week or whatever it is ,which the UK contributes to the EU.
Basically the UK is losing ?350 a week until it agrees to whatever Poland, Rumania etc decides to give it.
As others have said there's nothing to stop the UK breaking whatever treaties it likes; just so long as nobody minds the pound sterling losing its status as a reserve currency, dropping like a stone and ranking alongside the Zimbabwean Dollar or the Argentinian Peso at the bottom of the bucket
The article also specifies that, when agreeing a new deal [among themselves], the EU acts without the involvement of the country that is leaving.
michael adams
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The EMA might well be too slow.
However, it does seem to be the body which oversees mutual recognition procedures which, at least potentially, allow faster introduction of a medicine to other countries once approved in one country.
One way in which that might directly benefit the UK is actually in terms of medicine costs. One medicine, which a few years ago cost £12 a month, has rocketed to about £250 in the UK. The Greek equivalent is less than two euros - and seems to be very acceptable to many patients. The mutual recognition process just might open the door to the Greek product becoming available to the NHS.
Further, the costs of doing additional approvals for the UK only might be too high and end up with us not getting some medicines, at least in the shorter term.
Hey! I'll have you know I've got several thousand of they Argentine Pesos in my wallet right now and with the pound plummeting as it has, they are starting to look veeeerrrryyy attractive!
Nick
Don't a bad deal assume that these countries have nothing to sell to us?
Sorry, its a ?350 million contribution actually, as in the previous sentence.
The whole Brexit argument is based on the claim that we're net contributors to the EU. In which case the earlier the Brexiters can rid themselves of this weekly ?350 million contribution the better. Which we can only do by accepting whatever crumbs the likes of Poland and Rumania are willing to throw us from the table.
Basically as net beneficiaries of the EU its in the interests of Poland and Rumania to keep the UK dangling at the end of the hook, and coughing up the weekly ?350 million for as long as possible.
And who knows within the two years Turkey may have joined as well. With the UK standing outside in the corridor.
As to your other point I don't know what the current balance of trade is between the UK and the likes of Poland and Rumania; and I'd imagine what there is largely dependent on the number of Poles and Rumanian currently living in the UK. But in the great scheme of things and total EU revenues, I'd imagine it hardly amounts to the proverbial hill of beans.
michael adams
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