Replacement picture tube out of warranty?

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Even to the point of stupidity. Consider a salesman's job. It's to sell you the product, right? So you build up how good the product is etc. right?
Then, me having decided on the product (in this case a video), out comes the extended warranty spiel. "No thanks." says I. Salesman's response? "Well, these devices are very unreliable and prone to breaking down. The repair costs are astronomical, you really should get the warranty".
The temptation was to say "You're right, they are total crap. I'm not buying one of those. See ya!" ... and put in a good word to the manager for his honest salesman :)
In practice: the item was a Goldstar (LG) PW904i video. I had one, my uncle had one. Both saw day to day domestic use.
Uncle: First one packed up within warranty (display lights up every segment, and just keeps cycling, won't power up). Power supply replaced. Broke again, same fault, about 12 months later.
Mine: Broke just out of warranty (14 months?) Replacement PSU would be 50 pounds. Broke again after about 18 months. Replacement electrolytics for existing PSU, a couple of pounds. Still going OK.
So the salesman was right, they are unreliable rubbish (for longevity).
Someone has cut the corners on the design of this PSU so that it will last (guaranteed) 12 months, and anything beyond that is a bonus. A total of 4 manufacturer's original PSUs, all gone phut with duff electrolytics. I'd call that unreasonable. I wish I'd known about the 6 year limit referenced above ...
Mike.
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Mike Brown: mjb[at]pootle.demon.co.uk | http://www.pootle.demon.co.uk /
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There was a bad batch of capacitors a while back, perhaps related to your problem. Just about everything they were used on failed due to electrolyte leakage. If that's the case, going on the advice seen here, it's an inherent fault and you should be entitled to compensation. I think.
Fraser.
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Things are very different in the UK for this then, we get 6 years provided the fault isn't "normal wear and tear" apparently.

I always tell people not to bother with these, except on items that will have wear and tear. Usually things with moving parts like washing machines, dishwashers etc. I'm usually capable of fixing most things, so I never bother getting them myself.
For consumer electronics, if it's going to fail, the chances are that it'll be within the first year. Solid state electronics are pretty reliable if treated well and with the extended warranty often being up to 50% of the purchase price, it's not worth it. Consider the value of the item at the end of the term. Hi-tech gizmos often devalue quicker than cars. As an example, when the Sony playstation was around 300, I took out an 5 year extended warranty for around 120 IIRC. At the end of the term, the item cost 89 brand new. It's a gamble, but one usually worth taking.

In most large electronic stores in the UK, the staff get commission on these but not purchases, so they push them hard. I've seen many articles and TV shows on how bad they are, and given our consumer law they seem unnecessary for a lot of things.
Things may be totally different where you are of course!!
Fraser.
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in effect lets the retailer off the hook at the end of that time. It doesn't mean that they *have* to fix problems with *any* product for that whole period.
In effect, the manufacturer's warranty period means that problems that occur during the warranty period should be fixed without your having to negotiate the issue. Between the end of that and 6 years you *may* have a case, depending on the product, its position in the market and what it cost. The issue then comes to whether the retailer wants to play ball - this may well not be a store manager decision - and how far you then want to pursue the issue.
Ultimately, you can take it to the court where you may win something. Before embarking on that course, I would certainly talk to Trading Standards for an opinion on what you are likely to get. One factor in this is whether you are prepared to invest the effort required and wait the amount of time that it will take to get a hearing.
You mentioned that the there had always been a green caste over the picture. This could well have been a manufacturing defect which was a precursor to the catastrophic failure that has happened now. Arguably, you should have reported that at the outset, but it's too late for that now.
There is new legislation as a result of an EU Directive which puts the onus on the retailer to prove that there was not a manufacturing defect. However, IIRC, you only have 6 months after purchase to report a problem due to that. Also, I believe that the UK has not yet fully implemented all of the Directive provisions into statute, and possibly Scotland will be different anyway. It may be that this won't apply anyway since your purchase probably predates the new legislation. Again TS will be able to help you.
.andy
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wrote:

My bad; over simplification in the post, I understand what the 6 year thing refers to i.e. raising civil cases. Doesn't mean you'll win!! ;-)

Having found the receipt, I now realise that it cost 1050, so that should help the case. It was a top of the range set, highly rated in What HiFi (or some other mag), and made by one of the largest TV manufacturers. Should be a reasonable case that it should last four years (receipt confirms purchase date as Sept 1999). Hopefully!

Definitely a good idea, I'll look them up tomorrow & pay them a visit. It may well be that they provide the tube, and I the labor. It's actually been in for repair since October, so I don't expect to be charged a lot for the work given their slowness in even getting it up onto the test bed (about 3-4 weeks ago).

Would that be negative to my cause? If so, I could keep quiet about it as I haven't spoken to Comet yet about it.
Also, it's not always been there; I'd say around 6-9 months before the current failure. Before that, there were no issues, other than a little picture foldback, but there were user-accessable screen position controls I'd used to minimise that.
All in all, I've had several problems. Could these help my case, or should I just focus on the current fault?

When you say manufacturing defect, do you mean a defect unique to my item, or would it also include a generic design defect? The guy in the repair shop mentioned it as a known problem with this tube, and in my mind that would be suitable justification for repair.
Fraser.
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Based on that, I would certainly pursue it.

I think that offering a compromise position won't do any harm either.

I wouldn't mention it unless you get completely stonewalled. If that happens then I might be tempted to push the point. The problem is that they can say that you should have reported it earlier. However since the purchase pre-dates the new legislation, it probably doesn't matter too much.
I suppose the lesson here is, if you buy something top of the line then go over it very carefully and if it is not perfect then return it.

If you can catalogue them then yes, I suppose you could argue manufacturing defect or design problems.

AIUI, it can be either, because a design defect could make it unfit for purpose - assuming it does.

Is the repair shop associated with the retailer or a separate organisation? Either way he's your ally, but if he's a separate organisation, would he be prepared to state that the tube has a known design problem? Have you tried searching on the web using the part number of the tube to see if there is any mention of it? Perhaps some enquiries at Philips would reveal something.
Another thing to think about before you go too far with this is the residual value in the product. How long would you expect it to last before buying a replacement? Let's say 8 years for the sake of argument. Therefore you have 500 of value left if you assume a linear write down. So, before committing to a lot of time and direct and indirect cost if you consider legal action or other remedies, keep in mind that that is really the value that you are protecting, not the original purchase price.

.andy
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Andy Hall wrote:

I think this is extremely good advice, and, if followed, would actually improve product quality.
I have a Land Rover Defender that has been back for about half a dozen warranty repairs, including repsraying bits of it that corroded. As I understand it, every time a warranty repair is undertaken, teh car manufacture gets the bits back, sends them back to its supplier, and they bear the cost of replacement. If this happenes often enough, those parts don't get replaced with et same parts, but with better parts, because the manufacturers stop making any profit.
You have to be ruthless. Laziness is what allows teh manufactures to believe that they cheapo crap they are bolting in is of acceptable quality. In teh case of 99% of teh British Car industry, what happened was that people didn't send the cars back, they simply stopped buying them and the whole industry vanished.
I have some sympathy with manufactureres: Its not easy to control component quality. As a designer for productiomn my designs were often compromised by the buyer attempting to save pence by buying substandard components. Or productin engineers removing them altogether ("but they still work: Yes, but not when they get hot/a low spec bunch of trnsasitors get used/ under exterem power conditions etc etc).
In the OP's case, the fact that the set is worth better than a grand, and a picture tube fitted is probably far less than that, its worth pursuing even on a split/parts labour cost. Go direct to the manufacturers and complain about the quality of the product, and the quality of service from the retailer. In the car world at least, car dealers who have a slew of complaints against them lose franchises.
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Sorry Fraser, only just seen this post. Had a Toshiba tube go at three year old (not the same model as yours). Wrote to them, and they requested proof of purchase and an engineer's report stating the tube had failed.
Never heard a word from them myself, but they contacted the engineer and offered to pay for the tube. I paid the labour.
The address I wrote to was at Camberley, Surry. GU15 3DT
HTH
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Wrong. You get "up to 6 years". It depends very much on the product and the fault - and it is up to you to prove that the fault was inherent in the product from the time of purchase.
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Bob.

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wrote:

Not according to the following at: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?fileV0054-1111.txt
(in reference to the latter part of your statement that is, I agree on the "up to 6 years" bit, my post was badly worded)
----------- >8 ----------- Q. I bought a fridge/freezer about 18 months ago, and the freezer section has completely failed. I went back to the shop, but they refused to do anything as it was outside the original 12 month guarantee. What are my rights? A. Firstly, when you buy goods from a shop, you enter into a contract under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). This holds the shop liable for up to six years after purchase (Limitation Act 1980), providing that you can show that the problem is down to an unreasonable fault and not normal wear and tear. Secondly, remember that the guarantee is in addition to these statutory legal rights. Don't be taken in by the shop's argument here - they are using the issue of the guarantee as a red herring to try to avoid their legal obligations toward you. See our leaflet 'Buying Goods' for more information on your rights. ----------- >8 -----------
No mention of having the fault present at the time of purchase at all, just that's it's considered "unreasonable". I'll ask them tomorrow when I am in Trading Standards and post back results.
Thanks for all the input everyone, appreciated!!
Fraser.
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You have rights under the consumer purchase (or whatever it's called) law and should be able to get a replacement of it meneded free of charge. A judge would also find a 3.5 year lifespan unaccepatable.
Go back to shop and ask them to replace or repair it free of charge. Be polite etc.
If they say no tell them you are prepared to do it the 'hard way'.
Go back home and write a recorded letter saying what you want doing. Keep it short and polite.
Then make a claim under small claims. Info on web sites.
All a bit time consuming but you can claim for time taken off work and travel expenses, and you may find the claim process galvanises the shop into action before going to court.
Good luck,
Neil
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For guidance relevant in England see http://www.oxon-tss.org.uk/cgi-bin/con1item.cgi?file =*ADV0006-1011.txt
snipped-for-privacy@alumni.caltech.edu (Niel A. Farrow) wrote in message wrote:

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Could be a fault in the drive circuits, not the tube. If it is the tube and Toshiba will not replace it, the tech should be able to isolate the filiment from ground by using a seperate winding on the flyback core. Worth a shot before buying a new tv.
Bill Christian Technology

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Entirely correct. And adding a new winding onto the LOPTF is very easy. But dont DIY it as there are important issues you wont appreciate unless you have some electronic knowledge.
A cathode to heater short is not too bad as it can be worked round.
Regards, NT
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Fraser wrote:

I have a sony that is tsill doing this after over two years of intermittent problems.
Its not worth fixing: Tube plus labor is pretty much new set.

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