... and for that matter, detail sanders.
I'm using a belt sander on the floor of a small room (1), and it's doing the job. But it won't go up to the edges at the board ends. It looks like a random orbital would be the right tool to do the edge six inches or so - any recommendations?
And for the corners that won't do it either. So for the corners (and when I get to the stairs there will be a lot of corners) what kind of detail sander? Are these multi-purpose ones any good?
Any
Did one many years ago at a relatives house, for the bits left over after the massive floor sander I used my Makita Random orbit sander and a Fein Multimaster
Since then I've acquired a small Makita palm sander that in hindsight would be better for fine finishing to an edge. All are low vibration in use but the velcro backers are sensitive to heat and pressure. Press hard and use high speed and the backers will be trashed in a few minutes.
Depending on the previous coating (paint varnish etc) you might use loads of discs and pads. Buy in bulk, keep the oscillation speed right down and use light pressure.
In message , Vir Campestris writes
This may not be applicable, but with the wooden boat outdoors, we do a lot of sanding.
I've just, over the years bought the small triangular palm sanders as they have appeared in Aldi's remainder area or Lidl.
My son bought an expensive B & D sander that had masses of 'features'. He set to work and within about 15 minutes was sheepishly going back to a Lidl one.
One of the cheapos (I think about a tenner) broke. I have had that and the B & D one in pieces. The construction of the cheap one was excellent, the B & D one was dreadful. The plastic bits weren't available as spares.
We buried the cheapo one, with burnt out motor, with honours, in the bin
You can use a wood chisel as a scraper for tight corners.
A piece of 6mm glass gives you 8 sharp edges, or there are cabinet scrapers in various shapes and sizes
In message , Vir Campestris writes
I have a multipurpose one -B&D IIRC. It's ok. Nothing really wrong with it as such, but not as good as a job specific one, like most multipurpose tools. But did the job when I bought it
But when I had a big window stripping job I bought a better quality detail sander - Dewalt in this case. It's nicer to use as the vibration into the hands seems less and it's a bit quicker
Festool do two types of R.O.S. The Rotex and the standard type. The Rotex o ne is very aggresive and will sand down very quickly. Both types come with a clip-on guard ring to protect adjacent vertical surfaces (Like skirting b oards.) The also do a small R.O.S.(90mm diameter as opposed to the 125mm an d 150mm big brothers.) with a clip on triangular pad.
All very well though I suspect it might be cheaper to hire a Polish worker for a day and give him a hand sand pad and a quire of glass paper,
A hand held belt sander should be able to sand to the edge.
For a RoS, the Bosch green PEX 400 is about the entry level where they get usable. However if doing much of it, I would go for a higher end Blue bodied model.
The Multimaster for example is a far better detail sander than any dedicated detail sander I have used. They also seem far more efficient in the wear rates on sanding sheets than normal "orbital" delta sanders.
I don't think a belt sander belt goes right to the edge of the machine and it wouldn't be much use in the corners. I've seen professionals use standard orbitals sanders..
Mine (a 3" Makita) will go within a mm or so of an edge on one side - which ought to be enough if the skirtings are off.
Not to the edge then.
Didn't hear that the op was removing the skirting. This IME would not normally be done when sanding a floor
Mine would leave up to 3mm un-finished and the belt oscillates slightly as well and it still won't do the corners.
Near enough to make finishing the the rest with the delta sander easy enough.
Depends on ho much you mind scratching them up I guess.
Even 3mm is hardly onerous to find a way to clean-up after. Keep in mind that a RoS )or normal orbital for that matter) will not sand *well* right up to an edge.
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If I may quote you " A hand held belt sander should be able to sand to the edge"
and now " Near enough to make finishing the the rest with the delta sander easy enough?
Notice the difference ?
So were you incorrect the first time ?
I certainly could get closer than 3mm with an ROS and if I had the Festool one it would have its very effective edge guard to assist me. And lets not forget that using a belt sander across the grain, which will probably happe n at either end of the room, would not give a very good finish.
And I would not fancy going around the edge of a whole room with a delta sa nder as you suggest. Those small pads would make it very tedious and in my experience would wear out very quickly. I regard a delta sander as a detail machine, fine for small jobs, say around a window but not a whole room.
Its a long time since I last sanded a floor and I think I used a sanding di sc held in an electric drill to finish off. But I was much fitter in those days.
[could you fix your newsreader to snip sigs properly by any chance?]
A belt sander will go as close to the edge as pretty much any other type apart from an oscillating tool one like a multimaster or a specialist edge sander.
There are a few specialist edge sanders - some specifically produced for floor sanding. Some are based on a rotating (non orbiting) disk. These are fast and aggressive, however these tend to leave swirl marks that can be seen in the finish. The other option would be a linear sander such as the Festool LS 130. This is a much slower sander designed for finishing mouldings and profiles etc, but will also sand to an edge.
Depends on your RoS orbit size - 3mm and 6mm options being common (a few do both). If you have a 6mm orbit it will hog off material fast - but significantly more slowly at the very edge. For normal sanding this is not an issue (and is actually desirable since it helps feather the edge), but sanding to an edge will leave the edge far less well sanded that the rest. You would also be hammering the side of the plate against your skirting if you have not removed it.
If you have not tried an oscillating delta sander, you may be surprised how much better the paper life tends to be compared to a normal delta sander.
Also since you are only taking off a very narrow strip at the edge it will sand quickly.
As I mentioned above there are specialist tools that are in effect the same thing, but with a guide system to save having to hold and align it manually. e.g:
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So, not avoiding the question, were you incorrect about using the belt san der the first time ?
I think I would have enough skill to use an ROS close to an edge to avoid h ammering the skirting. It is no great skill.
If you have gone to the trouble of removing the skirting then the problem o f sanding to an edge would't exist as the skirting when replaced would cove r this area. Personally I would not attempt to remove the skirting as inevi table there would be breakages. If you are overly concerned with damaging i t then cover it with masking tape or something similar and be careful but i n most cases the skirting will be re-finished after the floor has been sand ed and finished.
Indeed I have an oscillating delta sander and find it goes through sanding paper and the velcro pads very quickly.
Just to recap if I may. My personal choice to finish the edge of a sanded f loor would not be a belt sander. If used across the grain it will leave scr atches which can be very difficult to remove. If used by unskilled hands it can do fearful damage.It wont go right to the edge either. Generally speak ing the belts are too wide for such a narrow strip and one runs the risk of damaging an already prepared floor or alternatively starting with the belt sander instead of finishing. It would be pretty useless in corners and aro und door saddles etc. A ROS used skilfully will ameliorate these problems o r even just a sanding disc held in a drill will do the job.
Or do it the old fashioned way and paint a black 50mm wide strip around the edge of the room :-)
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No. Its the tool I would use if doing the job, and its a tool I have used for doing it in the past. That is why I suggested it. If you don't like the suggestion, feel free to do it any other way you fancy, I won't be offended!
Personally I would not bother using *my* RoS since its orbit size is larger than any gap my belt sander will leave.
(Note many belt sanders include a tracking control that will let you track the belt off the rollers very slightly - so you can "steal" another mm or two to get the belt right to an edge if you must)
Then you are buying cheap abrasives or not using it properly. Too much pressure on the pads will not sand much faster, but will wear the paper quickly and knacker the backing pads in no time. (A lesson I learnt the hard way!)
Just switch to a finer belt when working cross grain, keep the machine moving and apply light pressure.
Yup I would agree with that - you can make a pigs ear of a job faster with a belt sander.
You will need something else for corners certainly. My belt sander will only sand to about 1.5" from the end of the machine.
You are missing the point. You initially said a belt sander would go right to the edge then changed it to say within a certain distance. Thats is wha t I was pointing out. The inconsistency in your stance. I repeat what I sai d. A belt sander will not go to the edge
IME all belt sanders have tracking control. Its necessary to allow for vari ations in belts.
You are making unwarranted assumptions :-) I use Bosch abrasives almost ex clusively. Having once worked for E.A.C. I know the value of good abrasives
No. It will still scratch across the grain even on a hard wood floor. Cross grain scratches can be a real bastard to eliminate. Keeping a belt sander moving is standard procedure but applying pressure is not necessary. The we ight of the machine and the effort to stop it running away should be suffic ient if you are using the correct grade of abrasive.
We'll just have to differ on this.
My belt sander goes near enough to the edge for it to be a non issue as far as I am concerned. For many floor sanding jobs leaving a mm or so at the edge un-sanded may well not even be visible.
I am not sure why this is such a big issue for you, but if all you want is an argument, then pay your fiver, and I will join in ;-)
(perhaps your sander has a large body overhang on both sides?)
All have a tracking control, but only some will allow you to use it to position the belt just off the outside of the rollers with consistent results. (generally the more flimsy the chassis of the machine the poorer the tracking consistency).
I can only give advice based on my own experience here. I have used a normal orbital style delta in the past (green Bosch) and found what I considered a "resonable" wear rate on the abrasives if used sensibly. When I bought my Multimaster top set some years ago (probably 10 ish), I ordered extra abrasives with it since I figured that although I do relatively little delta sanding, based on my experience with the Bosch, I would soon go through the supplied papers. What I found after some use is that the wear rate of papers on the multimaster is far lower than on the traditional delta. As a result I still have not used all the original papers that I bought with the machine.
Again your experience may differ - you may be doing different jobs with it.
I think you are misinterpreting what I mean by light pressure... I would agree the weight of the machine is adequate, and that in my mind *is* light pressure rather than heavy pressure (i.e. pushing the machine into the work).
As to scratching, its not a problem I have noticed if you go through the grits. I have seen scratches left on hard oak when you sand that at say
60 grit with the belt, and then switch to 120 on the RoS - but this was for furniture rather than flooring. (In those cases going to 80 or the RoS gets a better result I find)The last sizeable floor I did was helping a friend do a large herringbone layout block floor - and in many places it was impossible not to end up sanding some blocks cross grain. Finishing up with a fine belt however left a finish that looked fine when stained and waxed.
Sounds like a good plan before we bore everyone else too much.
Not looking for an argument. Just pointing out the inconsistencies in your statements. Just curious to see how long you would keep up this nebulous argument.
Do you always have to get the last word ? ;~-)
Do you ever admit an error ? :-)
Was tempted to ask if you were Rod Speed's alter ego but I wouldn't be that egregious.
Bit of harmless joshing. Please take as intended.
Not always, just mostly!
Yes I try to when I am aware I have made one. Check my posting history if you need confirmation.
However I don't consider what I said in this case to be in error. Perhaps it was less precise than you would of have liked, but I found any gap left to be a non issue last time I did it. I will concede that perhaps I was not making enough allowance for the variability of other belt sanders. If you have one that can't sand upto or at least close to an edge, you will have more cleanup to do after.
Owwww take that back you meanie ;-)
no offence taken.
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