private sale of 3-piece suite: fire regs?

[John Nagelson]

If I advertise my 3-piece suite in the local rag and someone buys it from me, do I have to ensure that it complies with the Furniture & Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988?

I know the regulations don't apply to furniture made before 1950.

What about stuff made after 1950? I think the effect of section 14 is that I do have to ensure it complies, even if I'm not "in the trade" and this is the only piece of furniture I ever supply to anyone. Am I right about this? (If so, I'll have to dump it!)

Thanks!

John

[Lobster]

Nah. As a private one-off seller it's not relevant. Mind you, the market in old 3-piece suites is pretty non-existent IME - if you've got one dating before 1988 I'd be surprised if you'd get takers unless it's a but special.

The quite reasonable suite in our kids playroom was acquired from ebay about 5 years ago - for 1p...

David

[John Nagelson]

Thanks David. Do you know the chapter and verse which says the Regs don't apply to one-off private sellers (or alternatively that they only apply to business sellers)?? Various "advice" sites say the Regs don't apply to one-off sellers, unfortunately without giving the ref...

Cheers!

John

[The Natural Philosopher]

I do know the auction house wouldn't take anything without fire certificate. And we skipped a lot during mother's house clear out. Simply unsaleable. Tragic.

[tim....]

Yes, but they were made unsaleable by the "Furniture& Furnishings (Fire)(Safety) Regulations 1988" which IIRC required that the furniture still had its fireproof "label" attached. Who the **** uses furniture with a silly little label still hanging off it. (and I don't believe that, as suggested, there was an exception for advertised private sales.)

Anyhow, before this act there was a thriving second-hand market in such furniture for use in the furnished rental market. After this law it just died completely and the number of available furnished properties for rent diminished considerably.

tim

[Tabby]

83m$aua$ [e-mail]...

On the other hand, the death toll from such furniture isn't too funny.

NT

[tim....]

On the other hand, the death toll from such furniture isn't too funny.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't it. Does it spontaneously combust?

No it doesn't. Precisely how many people died due to this furniture who wouldn't have died in the fire anyway?

tim

[The Medway Handyman]

messagenews:ikd83m$aua$ [e-mail]...

I was involved in the industry when fire retardant foam first came out. Interestingly the majority of people killed in fires were smokers who were several times over the rink drive limit.

[ARWadsworth]

One of the reasons why I do not smoke in the house and one of the reasons I threw out a lodger (she was smoking in the bedroom)

[Skipweasel]

Did you stamp her out first, or just let her smoulder in the garden?

[ARWadsworth]

I was tempted. The annoying thing was my only rules were

No smoking in the house. She failed that one

Make sure that the doors are locked and the windows are shut when you go out (my insurance would be void with an unlocked door) She failed that one

and be tidy. She passed that one

I could not give a toss whatever else they did as long as they paid their bills.

[The Medway Handyman]

To highjack your thread, we cleared out the loft over the weekend & took loads of baby stuff to a local charity shop. One of the items was a car seat.

I wasn't sure if they would take it, given the possible safety implications, but they were happy to.

[PeterC]

It is a pity; I have some Parker Knoll furniture from pre-1980 and it might have to be scrapped when I get rid of it. The last piece of PK that went was broken up first as there's some good wood in the stuff.

[The Natural Philosopher]

messagenews:ikd83m$aua$ [e-mail]...

Its a lot funnier than the death toll from candles. And Xmas trees.

Neither of which are banned.

[meg_mog]

Just read the regs and schedules and I have to agree, the only exception is second hand furnished caravans (random!).

Second hand furniture must have its little label. Post 1988 most people know this and so don't remove the labels anymore however post

1950 and pre 1988 there is a huge chunk of time where furniture was produced without labels and is now effectively unsaleable.

Tbh the regs are clearly incredibly stringent but by virtue of that are basically unenforceable on a day to day basis. It doesn't simply apply to sales but to supply too so that vetoes freecycle and handing items on too. I think the legislation was clearly needed and its intentions are good but I do think its badly drafted and misguided in how stringent it is in regard to the second hand market. There should have been better transitional arrangements. As it is the regs are clearly ignore on a daily basis by private individuals to the extent that a myth has grown up that there is even a specific exception. It'd be funny to see Trading Standards suddenly try to start enforcing it on private sales...I imagine it would be far too much hassle for them to be worth it!

Never the less, to comply you do need a label. BTW, do you think there will develop a market in 30 years time for vintage rare upholstered post 50's furniture because so much has now been scrapped...? ;)

[The Natural Philosopher]

You can get it re-upholstered with new materials. And a new label attached. It is sadly almost as expensive as a new piece.

Frames account for very little of the cost of upholstered furniture.

[Peter Parry]

There isn't one, the regulations do, as you assumed, apply to private sales of second hand furniture.

"14.?(1) This regulation applies to furniture which has previously been supplied ... to any person who acquired it otherwise than for the purposes of a business of dealing in furniture.

(2) Furniture to which this regulation applies shall satisfy the requirements of regulations 5, 6 and 8(1) to (3) ..."

"15.?(1) ...no person shall supply any furniture or other article in respect of which any of the requirements of these Regulations is not satisfied."

"supply" is defined in the regulation as "?supply?, where the context so admits, includes offering and agreeing to supply and exposing and possessing for supply, and cognate expressions shall be construed accordingly."

which includes private sales.

The only exception for second hand furniture is that the display label specified in the regulation is not required.

[Tabby]

Weird isnt it how some people just dont take any notice, then wonder why they suffer the consequences.

NT

[The Other Mike]

Attack of the killer xmas trees?

Why are they so dangerous?

[Tabby]

A seller was prosecuted for selling in pounds & ounces... what makes you think they'll apply sense.

NT