Part P question

[Dundonald]

Had a bathroom installed (by B&Q), they didn't install any electrics, i.e. no lights and shower did not require a pump, but they did install a tin bath that was earthed to pipework. Is certification required?

Thanks

[ron]

Why does it matter if it is earthed! I can't believe people get so worked up about these things. Why not call B&Q and discuss it if you know what you're talking about. What sort of answer do you want and what do you want from B&Q out of interest?

[Dundonald]

Because to put it quite frankly B&Q ballsed up the installation, so I'm gathering all appropriate evidence against them to make my case. One of the issues that I had with them was the fact that they didn't earth the bath. I couldn't believe it. When they came back around to complete my snag list, the plumber tried to earth from the bath using the metal leg - fine, but there was a sheaf of plastic between the metal leg and the tin bath! Comical, absolultely comical.

So, if B&Q did have to issue me a Part P cert and didn't, it's another string to my bow. The problem I have is I can't find a website that will allow me to identify what Part P is limited to.

Thanks.

[Tim S]

I'm reading this as "earthed by a bit of green/yellow wire fixed to a point on the bath and connected to a strap on one or more pipes where B&Q men connected said wire themselves". Yes/no?

If I'm reading your post correctly, then yes, technically supplementary cross bonding (not necessarily earthed, that depends on other factors) is covered by Part P *in special locations*, your bathroom being a special location. It's clearly stated in the Part P document on the ODPM's website.

Assuming the fitters were Part P scheme registered, I assume they should have left you some paperwork. If they weren't, then technically a Building Notice is required, which is ludicrous to my mind (100 quid to fit a bath?), but if you want to torture B&Q, then it's a valid point. You'll serve to highlight the silliness in some of Blair's and Fatman John's new fangled micro-regulations while you're at it.

You could ask over here:

of sparks and engineers, someone should be able to tell you what you should have received and debate the issue at length.

HTH

Tim

[Andy Dingley]

Hey ron, to save a lot of updating of killfiles, could you please either start posting from diybanter or else change your username to ::ron::

Thanks

[Chris Bacon]

AAMOI what does that do, in the "diybanter" context (or am I being dim again)?

[Dundonald]

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green / yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal pipework supplying the said tin bath.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin point that exact piece of regulation.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

[Dundonald]

[Dundonald]

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green / yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal pipework supplying the said tin bath.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin point that exact piece of regulation.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

[Dundonald]

Correct. B&Q installers did *eventually* fit like that. Green / yellow wire was taken from the loop on the tin bath down to metal pipework supplying the said tin bath.

Thanks very much, I'll take a look at the ODPM's site and hopefully pin point that exact piece of regulation.

I very much doubt the plumber that B&Q sent around to install the bath would be Part P registered, especially after the silly mistake he almost made by taking the green/yellow cable from the metal leg on the tin bath that was protected by a plastic sheaf. Nor have I been advised that a Building Notice is required or is in progress.

Thanks for your help Tim, very helpful.

[Martin Angove]

Yes. This work is supplementary bonding and in a "special location" (e.g. a bathroom) supplementary bonding is notifiable to Building Control. It's quite likely that the fitters won't have left you with any paperwork, but you should be getting a notice of compliance directly from BC as soon as BC has been notified by them. I believe that the turnaround time could be anything up to about 8 weeks.

Although B&Q didn't install any lighting or other electrics, assuming that there is already a light in the bathroom and given the fact that they have made some attempt at supp. bonding the bath and pipework, they should also have run a supp. bonding wire to the lighting circuit. This is the killer in many places as it is often impossible to run a wire up to the lights from the pipes without making it obvious somewhere along the run :-(

Hwyl!

M.

[Dundonald]

Martin Angove - thanks for your post affirming that certification is required. Indeed I also checked the forums from iee.org and a few people helped there also. For those who may search in future times for a similar answer, here's a link to the thread.

for all your help!

[EricP]

So the lighting earth is connected directly to the pipes?

What size cable is used? Most of it seems thick enough to use in engineering construction work or a power station.

[Martin Angove]

Yes. And the earth of any other power circuit within the "zones" (which in practice usually means the whole bathroom). The idea is to connect any and all possible routes to earth together such that if one of them becomes "live" so do all the others meaning that there is no potential difference between them meaning that no current can flow if you happen to be holding (say) a tap when (say) the radiator becomes live.

Note other current threads making the point that metal fittings fed by plastic pipes must not (normally) be earthed.

2.5mm2 is all that is required if it is completely mechanically protected. Since that is practically impossible, most people seem to use 4mm2 or 6mm2. Getting 6mm2 G&Y cable into a ceiling rose is something of an art. Even 4mm2 is difficult.

Hwyl!

M.