Part P paperwork

[jim]

what does one do if one's electrician goes bust after completing (now covered) work but before issuing certificates etc for building control?

ta jim

[Tim S]

jim wibbled:

I'm doing my own under Part P. My BCO wanted some basic evidence of qualifications and an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) which can be downloaded from

somewhere.

Unfortunately, effectively, to now get an EIC, you will want a full PIR (Periodic Installation Report) which includes sample visual checking and a full set of measured tests which produce the numbers that go on the Schedule of Tests on the EIC.

The new bloke won't be able to make any assumptions about the wiring so he'll have to check everything that's accessible and measure everything again.

Firstly, do Building Control know about this job? You could (slightly illegally) ignore the issue if you think his work was good.

Secondly, if you do want or need to be by the book, you could go and talk to the BCO and ask him what to do. They may say get a PIR done (probably in the region of 150-300 quid).

Thirdly, was the chap who went bust a member of the NICEIC or one of the other bodies? You could his professional body, explain the problem and ask them if the insurance that he may have had with them covers them sorting the problem out? (I have no idea what the NICEIC et al insurance covers - but I'd make the phone call).

Lot of it about sadly at the moment...

HTH

Tim

[RobertL]

As a matter of interest, does the contractor supply the BC certification documents to the homeowner or directly to building control?

Robert

[jim]

my bco was expecting me to send him certs.... expect there are other ways around a la FENSA racket?

jim

[jim]

some good thoughts thanks

BTW what happens if i don't get the certs to give to the BCO? (or until a reasonable time (years) has passed before forking out for another PIR) - does the BCO file stay alive or can they pressure me to sort it somehow?

ta jim

[Tim S]

jim wibbled:

Could you clarify of the job was on a Building notice, or you were expecting self-cerification via NICEIC etc.

Doe teh BCO know about the wiring work?

Then I can answer your question more accurately :)

[Jim]

It'll probably eventually be noticed when the house comes to be sold.

We had an extension which was done in the early 1990s and we forgot to get the final building control sign-off. So the file remained open until we sold the house in 2007. I think the new owners had to get it regularised.

[Fredxx]

I thought the act required someone of the right persuasion, ie belongs to the right club, to carry out the relevant work. Is there any part in the act which requires a certificate?

[Tim S]

Jim wibbled:

It may or may not. You can get indemnity insurance (100 odd quid) at sale time to placate panicy buyers - it's a worthless purchase to solve a non problem but it seems a de facto solution.

As far as you go - in a couple of years there's nothing the LABC can do to you due to limitations of law, and in this case they are not likely to attempt a prosecution... It tends to be bent and dangerous tradesmen that they spend time persuing, not householders.

Technically (and Hugo may give a more informed opinion as he is a BCO) I think you'd need to regularise this as your main option with the LABC, which is typically going to cost 100-150 quid (very dependant on LABC)

*and* they may want you to produce an EIC at your expense, so that's another 150-300 for a PIR.

But you can regularise at any time from a practical point of view, eg when you are thinking of selling, which means you could take an opinion from your solicitor at the time (but do it before the 17th IEE regs change to the 18th otherwise your installation may magically become non compliant)

OTOH, unless you are sure of the last chap's work, getting a PIR done now would give you peace of mind that he did a decent job.

Sorry - it's hard to tell you what to do, the decision is yours.

Why not start by finding out which professional body the last bloke was a member of and phoning them - there may be a cheaper way out of this - this is why professional bodies exist after all, though milage may vary. For a

50p phone call it won't do any harm to ask. I would *hope* that under these circumstances the NICEIC would send another member round to test the installation and register it for you under the insurance system for free or reduced cost. It's a bloody long shot and I'm cynical, but I *would* explore this avenue.

Next step is a visit in person to your LABC - a face to face with the BCO will probably get you more sense than any remaining other options.

Or ignore it...

Cheers

Tim

[Tim S]

Fredxx wibbled:

The club would always require an EIC or Minor Works Cert for any work done.

I don't think the legislation specifically requires on but it's required de-facto to demonstrate a safe installation to interested parties and the act does require this.

So either way, effectively you need one.

[Roger Mills]

I'm not sure what the official process is, or even whether it's always the same under different circumstances.

I recently had some electrical work done in connection with converting a garage into a kitchen. The overall job was covered by a Building Notice. In my case, the electrician gave the installation/test certificates direct to me - and the BCO asked to see them when he did the final inspection.[I think I gave him photocopies]. The electrician also sent some form of electronic notification to Building Control, and notified his professional body - ElecSa in this case. The official Part P Certificate came in the post, direct from ElecSa.

I've no idea whether this is the way it's supposed to happen - but it appears to have worked ok.

[jim]

seems you have probly covered most angles most helpfully but to answer the questions -

-job was a full plans approval and yes BCO knows about wiring (quite a bit done) and is expecting (at some stage:>)) some completion sert from sparks via me.

(NB seems we have two Jim's on the thread which could cause some confusion)

cheers Jim OP

[Tim S]

jim wibbled:

OK Jim OP ;->

OK, the BCO knows about it and your sign-off depends on this as well as all the other bits being done to his satisfaction.

He's going to want either paperwork from the professional scheme operator or an EIC.

You could now safely do these two suggestions in parallel:

a) Ring the scheme operator (probably the NICEIC but could be one of half a dozen people) and ask them if they can sort it out as it was one of their members going bust.

b) Go and see the BCO and explain the problem. Doubt it's the first time he's come across this problem in the last few months.

There are no other options I can see unless you don't want your completion certificate on the whole lot.

Sorry - it's a bit of a pain, and it might cost you a couple of hundred more (or perhaps you didn't pay the sparky up to the final amount before he went bust?)

Anyway, if you have full plans, you won't AFAICS be needing to regularise this, just convince the BCO that the electrics are safe, which is usually with an EIC filled out by a competant (BCO's prefer qualified) person.

Cheers

Tim

[jim]

OK got it. many thanks

Jim OP

[ARWadsworth]

Hi Jim

I do not know which part P scam the contractor was registered with in your case.

However the NICIEC will allow another NICEIC contractor to complete the work and issue certificates in your situation.

You will receive the certificates not the BCO. The BCO will either look at the certificates when he signs the job off or of accept a photocopy of them. All part P NICIEC jobs are registered on line and I do believe that the BCO will be notified via that on line registration.

HTH

Adam

[jim]

hi adam

when you say:-

BCO will be notified of what exactly? - that the job has started? for sure he should already know - having visited many times...

thanks for the tip about NICEIC I hope i'll be able to sort something soon.

Jim

[Tim S]

jim wibbled:

The completion being satisfactory.

Do you actually know which scheme (professional body) he was a member of?

If not, the NICEIC is the most likely - ring them and give the bloke's name and town - they'll soon confirm. If not, repeat with ELECSA and NAPIT. There are others, but the above are the more likely...

All these companies are or should be "public friendly" to you - they claim to have your interests at heart (*cough*).

[ARWadsworth]

As Tim says it for me then thanks Tim :-)

Yes jobs are notified on completion.

Adam

[Hugo Nebula]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:21:26 -0700 (PDT), a certain chimpanzee, RobertL randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

If the contractor is a member of a Competent Persons scheme, they notify their organisation (NICEIC, etc.), and that organisation notifies BC electronically afterwards (usually a few weeks later).

[Hugo Nebula]

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:58:02 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, Tim S randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Tim, your up-thread post had it spot-on as to what the OP should do.

If the electrics were part of the original application (eg, a kitchen extension which will include notifiable electrical work), then the application stays 'live' until all the Requirements are met (including Part P). The BCO should have been told before the work started if the work was being done by a member of a Competent Persons Scheme. If not they should have been inspecting the electrical installation themselves, and also have had an installation certificate from the qualified electrician on completion.

If the work is not part of the application (eg, where the building work is a lounge extension, but you're also replacing a consumer unit at the same time), then the B/Regs application can be signed off without an electrical installation certificate. The BCO has noticed the notifiable works, and would be expecting to see either a CPS notice from one of the bodies later if you haven't submitted a Building Notice to the LA before the work started. He may then take prosecution action, but probably won't unless there's something significantly wrong or dangerous, within 2 years of the offence taking place or 6 months of the discovery of the offence (whichever comes first).

A periodic inspection report is not usually acceptable in lieu of any inspection or certification of the work.