OT Wind power cheapest form of energy.

Yes, and its probably worth a little analysis and rebuttal... since while plausible, and in most places at least based on (partial) truths, it does seem to be pushing an agenda (daily wail - never!).

Firstly, the initial point about breakdowns from freezing condensate drains is entirely the fault of BG and their ilk ignoring the manufacturers instructions for the protection of the condensate drain. Read any of the manuals, and they are usually most explicit about how one should route and protect the drain from freezing. Many of these boilers were fitted in attic spaces and the condensate drain run through small diameter pipe in unheated spaces - set to discharge into gutter or onto a roof surface etc.

The part about return temperatures is also partly true - you do get the better gains in efficiency at lower return temperatures. And indeed if installing a system from new, one would tend toward higher output rads to allow this efficiency gain to work for as much of the year as possible. However it is ignoring other relevant information. Firstly modern boilers are modulating. They will adapt their output to match the demand and don't need to run flat out all the time. This enables them to maintain condensing efficiency gains for much longer periods of the year, even where the rads are undersized. Secondly, even at higher return temperatures, you still get better efficiency from the HE since with a conventional boiler the HE needed to be limited in size so as to prevent the possibility of condensation as much as possible.

With regard to condensate corroding the boiler, yes on older designs adapted from non condensers by adding secondary condensers it was a problem. On modern designs with ali and stainless HEs, and down or radial firing burners etc it does not seem to be an issue.

The point about the economic sense in scrapping a working boiler however is valid. You are unlikely to recoup the cost unless you have a high gas bill in the first place. This however does not seem to be a relevant criticism of the technology itself.

The £2000 for "one of the better ones" claim is out by a factor of 2 really - although that article is a few years old now.

Lastly people are very fond of comparing cast iron lump boilers with natural draught flues to a modern condenser, which is the wrong comparison since the cast iron lump boiler is not the predecessor of the condenser, and not the boiler you could have bought as an alternative anyway. One ought to be making comparisons with other modern forced induction boilers stuffed full of electronics etc.

Reply to
John Rumm
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Reply to
Chris Hogg

I don't. It's the only paper I won't pick up (well, that and the Daily Bigot^WMail) if someone leaves one on the train. Reading the Grauniad is bad for my blood pressure.

Reply to
Huge

+1
Reply to
Tim Streater

I've not. Sounds like you have, though.

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However, my top of the range self installed condenser (bought at the best price by shopping around) paid for itself in approximately 4 years. And the previous boiler and controls were by no means primitive.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I estimate mine is saving about £300 - £400 a year. So should pay for itself in about another 6 months to a year.

Reply to
John Rumm

So you qualified and have a Gas Safe certificate then?

Reply to
Bod

What do you think of UKIP?

:-)

Reply to
newshound

My view of Combis is similar to the NGs view of 'Saniflo's, but not comparing like for like. I'd expect a quality "condensing" to last as well as a cast iron Ideal type.

Reply to
newshound

Why would I need one?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Yep. Condensing boilers got a bad name when they first came out because they had fanned flues at a time when most "conventional" boilers didn't. That added a fair bit of relatively untried complexity.

After a few years, all the non-condensing ones had fanned flues too, so the reliability advantage more-or-less disappeared. By that time though, condensing boilers had a reputation that many people cling to even today.

Cheers,

Colin.

Reply to
Colin Stamp

You don't need that for working on gas appliances in your own property.

Reply to
charles

I only asked because it is technically against the law if you aren't qualified. This *may* invalidate any insurance payout if a fire or flood is caused by a boiler fault and you haven't got the installers Gas Safe proof of installing the boiler. You know that insurance companies will dig deep to find a way to pay out, especially on a large claim.

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Reply to
Bod

Because you seem to be claiming to have "self installed" a gas appliance, which is illegal unless you are a registered gas fitter. (Now Gas Safe, was Corgi).

Of course, it *could* just have been sloppy phrasing...

Reply to
John Williamson

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  1. Always check that an engineer is Gas Safe registered. It is against the law for anyone to do work on gas appliances in the United Kingdom, Isle of Man or Guernsey unless they are on the Gas Safe Register. Always check that an engineer is Gas Safe registered before you let them work in your home on the Gas Safe Register website or by calling 0800 408 5500.
Reply to
Bod

It's not a newspaper.

Reply to
Richard

Reply to
Nightjar

I do sometimes wonder why he posts links to articles that it is obvious he has not read properly, if at all.

Reply to
Nightjar

Because he can't read anything smaller than a HEADLINE!!!?

Reply to
John Williamson

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