We're not *that* backward up here :-)
I have only been here for five years, having spent most of the preceding
50 years in the Home Counties.Indeed.
A tracked item will require a signature upon delivery, whether delivered by Royal Mail or a courier. Couriers will (or should) leave a card if delivery is attempted, and no-one is available to sign. The intended recipient then has the option of collecting from the local office, or arranging redelivery. Royal Mail offer the same service.
Nah, just a bit ESN. :-)
{Snip]
If you sent a packet registered via Royal Mail you get a receipt at the point of postage, and if it then goes missing in the care of the Post Office nothing more. Their tracking system just says it has been unable to track your parcel. They make no attempt to control / track the package whilst in their own system.
My sister runs a jewellers shop on the south coast of England and on the the 24th of January sent a small parcel of repaired jewellery by Registered Post to my wife here in Leeds. The Post Office website still says they cannot track the parcel, because the only point of reference would have been when it was delivered and signed for. :-(
The Post Office, perversely deny any compensation *at all* for jewellery lost in the "Registered Post", perverse because to get compensation you have to pay for "Special Delivery", but a "Special Delivery" was not what we needed and the cost is very substantially higher.
Odd that, since they will pay at east some little compensation (30 quid ) for other items lost in the ordinary post. Seems they know what to expect if jewellery gets sent through the postal system, but instead of taking steps to eliminate these malpractises they rather see it as a further opportunity to gouge their customers.
Our village has just lost it's Post Office after having one for over
150 years.Tossers.
DG
However, there is a substantial difference.
If I look on the USPS or Royal Mail systems there are normally only two data points - entry into their system and delivery. I have never seen anything in between.
All that seems to happen is that there is an unknown period of time when the item disappears down a back hole.
I don't think that's acceptable.
OTOH, if I look at Fedex's and DHL's tracking systems I get something like this, which is an extract of the tracking for a package I received this week:
Mar 19, 2007 11:17 AM Delivered BERKS GB 6:37 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery THATCHAM GB Mar 17, 2007 11:05 PM Int'l shipment release STANSTED GB 11:05 PM At dest sort facility STANSTED GB 2:05 AM Departed FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN 1:06 AM Arrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN Mar 16, 2007 6:32 PM Left origin MENLO PARK, CA 3:13 PM Picked up MENLO PARK, CA 2:43 PM Package data transmitted to FedEx At the instant that the person shipping details, I received an email with a clickable link for the tracking number. I can see precisely where the package has passed and when, every significant step of the way. Moreover, if there had been a customs or other delay, I get an email (or I can check) and call their customer service for a precise status and response within a hour or so and they will fix the problem or tell me exactly what action I need to take, if any. Results are in hours, not days.
Of course it would be perfectly possible for these state run (or equivalent to state run) postal organisations to offer the same level of service. They should even have the economy of scale to be able to do so. The reality is that they are still trading on their former monopoly positions and basically haven't a clue. Then they wonder why they are losing business hand over fist, and whinge about their lot in life. I have zero sympathy or tolerance for the poor level of service of this kind of organisation - they really don't deserve to be in business.
Derek Geldard wrote
Have the PO recently (ie since 24-Jan-07) dropped 'Registered Post'[1]? There's no longer anything on their website about that.
However, there's a new service called "Royal Mail Tracked' coming in on
11-Jun-07 which seems to do the sorts of things I would have thought 'Registered Post' would have done.Footnote
--------
It's a bit pointless anyway.
Their Special Delivery service is cheap for items of value up to a few hundred pounds and despite themselves they do seem to manage next day delivery.
In message , Derek Geldard writes
It hardly seems fair to blame Royal Mail when your sister used an incorrect service. Special Delivery is *exactly* the service required to carry jewellery.
In message , Brian L Johnson writes
There are two options - Recorded Delivery and Special Delivery. Recorded is what used to be Registered. Special Delivery offers insurance and guaranteed next day delivery, whereas Recorded is ordinary first or second class, no guaranteed delivery date, and no additional insurance.
Yes, I think so. We are both showing our age :-) There are still people, particularly solicitors, who draw string around the envelope.
Their customers pay extra for this.
Graeme wrote
Yes, that's what I found. Recorded is the 'standard mail' section and Special Delivery is in the 'Urgent or valuable' section. Although, I have to say, the links to get to those sections could be clearer.
No mention of 'Registered Post' at all.
Re: simulated string
With me, increasingly, these days.
I can't see who else to blame. It's gone missing whilst in their care and they can't tell us where it went.
You misunderstand, it wasn't the crown jewels, It was family jewellery coming back from repair. We didn't need Special Delivery which would have cost pounds extra, and TBH would have been out of proportion to the value of the shipment.
We simply expected the Post Office to do what they agreed to do. Deliver the item and collect a signature on delivery. They did neither. Saying they had another service that gives compensation for pilferage by their employees is a rigmarole.
DG
Please don't think that I'm here to defend any part of Royal Mail Group. My earlier comments were based purely on personal experience. These are a couple of comments I posted elsewhere, within the last few days :
Regarding home printing of postage labels :
It is a typical Royal Mail Group policy, where nothing is thought through. What is the point of a headline grabbing benefit which is of no benefit at all? Are you sure RM's policies are not decided by Gordon Brown?
Regarding couriers, and Royal Mail :
There are two reasons why companies like TNT will take RMG business. Firstly, as we all know, the private companies can, and do, cherry pick. The second is that they are leaner and meaner. RMG is top heavy, and has a major attitude problem. You may laugh, but I'm talking about attitude to the Great British Public, and attitude to service, which just does not exist within RMG.
They may well be, but I suspect that the public sector mentality persists and it is easy just to blame the government.
I completely agree. Actually I feel rather sorry for some of the individuals who have to face the customers at the sharp end, although there seem to be a few who abuse their position.
An example from the last three weeks:
- I ordered some goods from the U.S. (value about $130) and there wasn't a way to specify shipment other than via USPS. I received tracking number from supplier the same day plus an email from USPS confirming tracking number and that they had the item. Service level was their Global Priority..... The tracking system never showed any more than that and still doesn't.
- Late last week, I get a card through the door from the post office in the town centre that they have a package and can't deliver it because there's a customs charge. Nothing on the card as to who and where it is from or a tracking number. It obviously is this shipment because the amount of the payment is about right and it's one of two that I am expecting.
- The card indicates that I have to show up at the sorting office between 0700 and 1400 with identification such as passport, credit card or recent utility bill and payment. This is less than convenient. Although the post office in Wokingham town centre has a large car park at the back with plenty of space, they will not allow customers to use it. Choices are a public car park 5 minutes walk away which is typically full, or do at least £5 of shopping in Waitrose and use their car park. When I went on Friday, it was pouring with rain. The sorting office is at the side of the building and there is no shelter apart from a 1m square of plastic above the hatch for the person immediately being served. There was a queue of 10 people who mainly didn't know what they were supposed to do. 20 minute wait.
- I produced the postcard plus a credit card for identity and payment. No they didn't accept credit cards for payment. "We don't do that" One has to ask why they do for identity.
- I asked why they couldn't deliver the item and collect the money at the same time. "We don't do that"
- Delivery then invoice? "We don't do that"
- Payment over the phone or on line? "We don't do that"
- Complete exercise took over an hour. Cost to me approaching £100.
- Use any supplier in the future who insists on using them? "I won't do that"
I'm appalled. Seriously. The current method *should* see you receiving a letter from Royal Mail, quoting the tracking number, if any, the customs duties/VAT and fee, and giving you a number to call to (a) pay by card and (b) arrange delivery. Whether debit, credit or both, I cannot remember.
However, much as I may be appalled, I'm not surprised, which is probably more worrying. The support which sub postmasters receive from Royal Mail Group is, if anything, worse than that enjoyed by the public. I could rant for hours, but will spare you that. There are several major problems, all dating back to when we were small boys. The different divisions within the group detest each other, and have done so ever since the GPO was broken up. There is a civil service mentality which is struggling to recognise 1957, never mind 2007, and Customer Service is a totally alien concept.
You may well ask why I continue. Two reasons - I enjoy what I do, and I am determined to provide service to my community, despite the best efforts of the Post Office :-)
I wouldn't have minded that. I imagine that they perhaps don't want posties collecting cash at the door, and I suppose that I can understand it.
I forgot to mention that in the plastic wallet for paperwork there was a form stamped by the Mount Pleasant sorting office with a date 4 days after the entry into the USPS system. In other words it was in RM's clutches for over two weeks. Really there was no valid reason either
- there was a commercial invoice, properly completed. Then there was nothing else with a date stamp at all, apart from the card which had been hand written.
Basically, the package had been sitting around, goodness knows where in RM's system for the best part of 2 weeks.
I know of several people who bought village post offices in places like the wilds of Norfolk, west Wales and so on essentially as something to do after early retirement from industry. AIUI, to begin with, they made a reasonable living at it, but not any more. There's one sub post office near me which is also a newsagent and small grocery store and generally seems to do OK. There's another which just seems to have a few greetings cards, packaging materials and a few sweeties for the kids and that's about it. I can't figure out how that one stays in business.
When I was working in the US, I would sometimes send things back to the UK by UPS. These would arrive in the UK in a couple of days, and then sit awaiting customs inspection for ages, although I don't think I had one clock up quite 2 weeks.
There are a great many sub postmasters in that position.
We purposely avoided a shop with Post Office, and bought a Post Office with shop. Shops with POs tend to be convenience type stores, open all hours, seven days a week.
Sounds like mine :-) The answer, in my case, is that we are also a mail sorting/delivery office. The PO will probably close if the mailroom work is withdrawn. A disaster? Yes, for the local community. No for me - I'll either lease or sell the property, take the payoff from the PO, and retire. We are lucky in that this area is extremely popular with tourists, and shop premises are never empty for more than a week or two. No charity shops, 'pound' shops or other classic signs of a dying high street.
That's probably wise in the sense that the post office trade is relatively measurable.
Therein lies the conundrum. Is it a business or a community service or something of both?
I use three post offices for different purposes:
- The nearest is basically a post office in a convenience store. That is used 1-2 times a month to send documents via special delivery to my accountant. It's reasonably easy to park there and as long as I avoid pensions day and later afternoon I don't have to wait. Otherwise it can be 20 minutes and I am not willing to wait that long to post a packet. I could call a next day service and they'll collect it from me. That's a 20 second activity at the front door.
- The second nearest is the post office with packing materials that I described. Historically I have visited that twice a year to renew tax discs. This one has authority to issue them, the other doesn't. I have no idea why. It does have easy parking and generally no more than a queue of 2. Now that I can renew the DVLA tax on the web, I do that. It's far quicker.
- The main post office is a disaster. I described the access and parking problem. Inside, there typically 2-3 windows open, a queue of
20 people and post office employees milling around at the back nattering. Every customer seems to need a 10 minute conversation over a £20 transaction.I can see that there is a perceived value in the "community service" aspect of all of this - nothing wrong with that. However, the right way to do it would be to set up a table in the corner with cups of tea and sticky buns and let Ada have conversations with Dolly about their WW2 exploits. That doesn't need to involve a post office employee who is supposed to be delivering a service to revenue generating customers.
It seems that you are fortunate in that the sorting office function is something that they have to do, although I suppose that they could run the whole thing from Lytham St Annes or wherever it is that they run faceless business processes.
Indeed, although business from the 'shop' side has dropped, as footfall in the PO has reduced. The drop is not significant, as the total profit was meagre to start with.
Something of both - see below.
Understood. Timing, is, the name of the game, as you have discovered.
DVLA will only pay the Post Office for a certain number of branches to issue MVLs (tax disks). Passport Office, the same - I issue MVLs, but not passports - I'm not even allowed to keep a private stock of blank passport applications, although I'm asked for them daily.
I'm not going to criticise :-) How can I? I shop online, the same as everyone else.
Main, or 'Crown' POs are *always* a disaster. I avoid 'em like the plague. Don't know why - presumably, as all the staff are employees, rather than owners, there is zero incentive to do anything.
I agree, up to a point. You say yourself that you use a PO perhaps once or twice a month, as do many people, and that level of support, whilst appreciated, is not going to keep POs open. The people who keep POs open are those who visit every week, or, more usually, several times a week. These are the people you would strive to avoid - the OAPs, the unemployed, the benefits claimants, those with 'basic' bank accounts etc. These are the people who withdraw a few pounds a day from their accounts, who, every time they come in, pay a fiver to the leccy, a fiver to the phone, same with their rent, and council tax etc. These people are not financially sophisticated. Most claimants want their eighty pounds or so paid to them, in cash. They will then hand it back, a fiver a time, for various different transactions. They cannot calculate these amounts in their heads, as you or I can. They need to
*see* the money. Yes, it is frustrating, not to say time consuming, but where else can they go? The banks certainly don't want their business. These are the people who would save twelve pounds a year by paying their BT bill by DDM, but most don't have, want or understand bank accounts. None of them *wanted* a PO card account - it was foisted upon them by that bastard Blair and his new labour government. Andy, I have had old ladies *crying* at the counter because they don't understand PINs, cannot remember the number, cannot work out which way to put their card in the machine. Seriously.This is all way off topic for the group, and my apologies for ranting. I really do feel, though, that there is a community benefit to local post offices. I can, however, appreciate why it is so frustrating for other customers. Having said that, anyone who uses a local sub post office should get to know the sub postmaster. Work out an arrangement to suit you both. I have several regulars who dump their post, I process it during quiet times, put the money in the till, and they pay me once a week, by cheque. All based upon trust.
RM couldn't run the proverbial p-up in a brewery. The system works at a local level despite, not because of the faceless backup boys.
I know. From the perspective of providing a business service, the customer shouln not have to think about that.
I thought that something like tyhis would be the reason.
I think that that's it exactly. The Ameriicans call it 'skin in the game'
It's an almost concrete divide.
I can look at someone in their work environment or in the worst cae talk to them for less than 30 seconds and determine where their mindset is,
I understand all of that completely and you are completely right in your analysis,
Clearly, there are some places that are trusted advisors. It's the same attitude that puts the doctor on a pedestal .
Your illustration shows that at least two services are needed. One would be a "community" thing that does look after the old ladies - I would be the last to trash that. Realistically, if it is a "social service" it should be subsidised from taxation. I would support doing that. I get very irritated when this is muddied into being a commercially viable proposition.
Taking my illustration of sending a package.... Sometimes it's a bit more than £4, sometimes over £5. To be honest, from a business perspective I don't care. If I could pay £7, dump the package and be sure of response I would do that. What I can't do is to spend 30 minutes discussing it.
That would be great. It would be so simple to make a product from it.
That's very apparent.
Traditionally, of course, the (G)PO never *was* a business. As a government department it was always intended to be a service - that's probably why it effectively 'nationalised' the stagecoaches, to give some form of consistency throughout the kingdom. How well it did/does that is another matter...
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