OT - 4x4 automatic car.

[Tinkerer]

I am very pleased with my Honda CRV. It is what I believe is called an intelligent 4x4. In normal driving it is Front Wheel Drive but if it senses that the front wheels are in bother it cuts in the drive to the rear wheels as well. The prop shaft connects to a unit mounted on the back axle. The propshaft and rear wheels each drive a hudraulic pump in that unit at the same speeds. Any variation in their speeds causes the 4WD to engage. I tested that out quite thoroughly in last years snow, the cut in was smooth and the car immediately corrected the spin and slide I had deliberately induced. There is of course no extra gear lever. My own CRV is a diesel and with that you only get a manual gearbox, but my cousin has the petrol version with an automatic gearbox and he is equally pleased with it. Size wise, I suppose it is middling - not as big as Range Rovers, Freelanders etc.

[sweetheart]

I have bever seen a Forester on a farm her. The old Land Rover ( usually so old they are held together with string) seems popular. The Range Rover seems to be the choice of the Fair ( as in those who go round with the merry go rounds). The Suzuki seems a popular choice in the area where I live hence I looked at it. Not one particular type though.

So, going on what I see on farms.... yeah ,

[Huge]

I'd concur. On of my friends has one (his second or third) and he thinks it's the bee's knees.

My oily bloke also thinks that recent Td4 Freelanders are OK, not that I know anything about them, but when I took the piss out of him for having several on his forecourt he was vociferous in his defence of them. And given that he funds his own warranties, he should know.

[Huge]

Like Steve said, "Grow a thicker skin."

[sweetheart]

I prefer proper automatics for this reason ( the Clio is a " proper" automatic - has paddles but I never use them) . The Toyota on the other hand is rubbish. My mother has one and I wouldnt give you tuppence for the auto in that. In fact she has had it six months * brand new) and is changing it because the auto is cr*p. Like a manual.

Precisely.

My Clio is a 1600 and works fine. The 1400 from a few years back worked wonderfully. Now if you ask me about a Polo - VW automatics are not as good as Renaults. I know about automatics and how they drive. ;-) The Mazda 323 was good. But more recent ones do not match up. I am into my third new Clio. Its better than the bigger Magane - less squshy.

But some would rather claim they are better drivers . I just would like my OH to have a 4x4 for those occassiuons we may need it. Since he has now retired offocially we do not need a big van.

[Huge]

Care to elaborate?

[Steve Firth]

I think you're missing the point Dave. The question is about a 4x4 to be used in poor driving conditions. An auto 4x4 is much less capable than a manual 4x4 in these conditions. An auto 4x4 will run away on hills, even in low ratio, and is much harder to control on slippery surfaces than a manual. In a manual 4x4 I can descend slippery hills in low ratio with feet off the pedals. In an auto 4x4 constant use of the brake is required and this is not a good thing since it can lead to loss of control, especially if ABS cuts in.

That said, either of my auto 4x4s is capable of being driven safely in snow. It just feels like harder work than driving a manual in the same conditions.

[Steve Firth]

I don't have a manual, see above. But the answer is "none".

I generally find that people who prattle on that they are "safe" are anything but, generally they are (a) slow and (b) lucky and usually (c) don't drive very far. You may be the sole exception, but on usenet you can make all the claims you want about how good a driver you are and they don't amount to a hll of beans.

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder BTW, is this why you declare that car salesmen are "sniffy"?

[Steve Firth]

Are there many (any) 4x4s with DSG?

[sweetheart]

Thank you. I will look at that one.

[Steve Firth]

Hill descent, I would imagine. To do that in an automatic requires one of those over-complicated braking computer things. A manual Landie can do it safely in Low ratio 2nd gear feet off pedals.

I had to descend an extremely steep muddy slope in the Ford a year or two ago, scared the crap out of me. Left to its own devices in low ratio with the autobox set to 1, it ran away, touch the brakes and it skidded and the ABS cut in making things worse.

[Clive George]

Aren't Renault automatics notorious for being the most unreliable gearboxes on the planet?

[sweetheart]

Reputations seem to be misguided then. I have never had a bad Clio automatic. I have had three brand new ones and I am into my fifth Clio all round - my previous ones were second hand. I keep my cars roughly four years ( sometimes five) and have never had a problem with a Clio other than changing tyres, lights etc. ( never even had an issue on an MOT) . I had one which needed a new exhaust before I dropped it ( I got the exhaust).

They do tend to be expensive on parts but never unreliable - including coming through inches of snow and blizzards over the moors last year. The C lio has a " snow button" by the way. I used that. It bought me home from Exeter to Launceston over the notorious Haldon Hill and Kit Hill ( for those who know it and remember last year in the January when they closed the roads.)

I would recommend a Clio any day for price and running costs although the road tax is steep now its worth it.

My Mazda though was the workhorse. I had it second hand - was four years old when I got it and I drove it for fifteen years, with over 100, 000 miles on it no trouble ever.

[dom]

In spite of Steve's way of presenting the options - his advice on the Subaru Forester is good - a vehicle worth checking out.

't be fooled by its car-like looks - there's a very sophisticated and respected 4wd system under the skin.

I used to have an Isuzu Trooper (probably exactly the vehicle you don't want) - I used 4wd most often to get out of mud in my own driveway/farm-track to our house, and in the same location appreciated/ needed the ground-clearance every day.

Here's the thing though - I bought it from the local Subaru/Isuzu dealer - and when I brought it in for a service, was usually loaned a subaru. I was very impressed with all of them (Forester/Impreza/ Legacy).

I was also very impressed with the dealership (Thurlow Nunn Standen). Some of the Subaru dealerships, particularly the rural ones, are family-business agricultural equipment/vehicle suppliers that diversified - with a level of integrity lacking in many other salesman- run businesses.

[geoff]

Prolly married to denise

[sweetheart]

Equally true of those who prattle on that a driver of a manual car is " more capanle " than one who drives an automatic I am sure. There is far more to driving than changing gear using a clutch. Hills of beans indeed.

[sweetheart]

So why do so many people have them? I considered this as a second car to replace my husbands van. An automatic would open up an option for me to drive it. My OH can drive a manual ( and even he admits I am a " better" driver than he is).

I dont necessarily want it for off road or bad weather . I would prefer to avoid both but the fact remains that most 4x4's got out of the village last year when I couldnt. I simply want broader options than I have now.

[Nick Finnigan]

Subaru seem to have traditional autos with a torque convertor, and the Forester or Impreza estate would be not B&B&BT

[Vernon]

We used to have a Mk1 Discovery V8 Auto, and I never had any problems with it running away downhill, select low range and 1st and it would just trickle along nicely, the V8 producing plenty of engine braking.

Modern 4x4 have electronic hill decent controls which gently apply the brakes, using the abs sensors to provide feedback. They work very well, not sure how reliable they are longterm though.

[Roger Chapman]

Good round clearance, snow tyres and manual transmission.