New Light Fitting doesn't have a terminal for a "LOOP" wire.

[Cherry]

I am currently installing new light fittings through out my house (not rewiring)and have had no problems.

Yesterday I have removed the hallway light to replace it with a new downlight (non transformer type) only to discover that instead of the standard 2 groups of wires (+ & - ) this existing fitting has also got an extra wire into another terminal on the block identified as loop ?. The problem is that my new fittings only have positions for a positive and negitive and no extra terminal for a loop ?

Is there a way I can use this fitting or will I have to purchase a different type ?

I have also discovered that all fittings in this half of the house (bedrooms ,bathroom) have the same issue. Being a Mechanic and not a "Cone head"" I'm not sure why half the house is one way and the other half the other. If this becomes to hard I will just hire an electrician

next time he's available (I live in a country town).

Thanks in advance.

[John White]

The two groups of wires should be called "Live (L)" and "Neutral (N)" rather than "+" and "-" .

"Loop" is used to carry the live feed to other lights on the same circuit and I would also expect you to have at least two wires going into the terminal.

There is also presumably a separate earth terminal (bare wires - sleeved with green/yellow). If not then you may have issues that go beyond new light fittings.

Yes you can use this fitting.

The correct way to deal with the wiring is to replace the ceiling rose (the bit on the ceiling) with a junction box above the ceiling, so that you just have one cable to connect your new light fitting to.

There are diagrams of how to do this on the web, and no doubt a link will be along in a minute.

A mix of "Loop-in" ceiling roses and other types is quite normal.

It can be costly call an electrician a "cone head", even here in Derbyshire. :-)

In Australia judging by your email address. :-)

John

[Owain]

This is also normal, but exasperating.

If there is room to do so within the enclosure you can use a single piece of "chocolate block" terminal strip.

You may also need to do this with the earths.

NOTE: You will probably have red wires which are 'live' (or phase), black wire(s) which are neutral, and a black wire from the switch which is the switched live. The switched live should have a piece of red sleeving on it to indicated that it is a live not a neutral. If you just common all the blacks together, then when you switch on you have a dead short across the mains and something will probably go bang.

Because sometimes it's easier to wire looping-in at ceiling roses, and other times it's easier to use a junction box somewhere, or even loop-in at the switch.

I suggest you get a book or website which shows how lighting circuits are wired up.

Owain

[David Hansen]

On 23 May 2006 04:03:28 -0700 someone who may be "Cherry" wrote this:-

Bearing in mind that I know almost nothing about wiring in Australia, but assume it has similarities with the UK.

gives an awful lot of information about how such things are wired, including pictures and drawings. A picture is worth a thousand words.

The light is wired using the loop-in system, which is described in the links from the above search.

Are these positions inside the fitting? If they are then it is probably best to replace the existing ceiling rose with a four terminal junction box and run a short bit of cable to the new fitting. The short bit of cable should be heat resisting in some circumstances.

[Roger]

The message from "Cherry" contains these words:

Using the loop-in system there are effectively 3 terminals (probably plus earth) on the ceiling rose, live, switched live and neutral and the

3 incoming pairs (mains, switch, light) are each wired across 2 out of the 3. If you on have 2 terminals you have to find some other way of getting the live to the live on the lamp which has to be supplied by the switched live if you don't want in on permanently. IMO the easiest way to do this is to transfer the existing wires to a 4 post junction box concealed in the ceiling void (or even use the existing ceiling rose) and feed the switched live and neutral to the new fitting.

[zikkimalambo]

All together now......

What's black and frazzled and hangs from an Aussie ceiling?

Why Conehead BTW?

[Cherry]

In Military Aviation Engine & Airframe technicians (mechanics) are know as Blackhanders for obvious reasons. The rest , Radio, Instrument and Electrical are known as either Whitehanders (bastards never get dirty) or Coneheads as it takes an alien to figure out that stuff !! These days the terminoligy is slowly creeping into the other trades. It is not an insult, just rival banter among tradies. Blackhanders are proud that they look like they work for aliving and coneheads are pround not to need a shower before going to the pub after work.

Also thanks everyone for the advise and ideas. I will check it out over the weekend.